If you’re a Christian - what are your thoughts on Charlie Kirk?

[ondemand]

There’s been a lot of very fiery discussions on other boards about the life and (horrific) death of Charlie Kirk. I’m a Christian (and regular MN name changer) but I’m intrigued to know what other Christians thought of him too?

In my circle of (Christian) friends, the reaction is a bit mixed. Most would say they knew he was a Christian as he regularly shared about his faith, some agreed with him on everything and others didn’t like his political views at all.

I’m not looking to start a debate (I promise!) but curious to know what other believers think.

Did I mention Trump? 🤔

You did not mention the elephant at the funeral, no. But he was there and he made a speech that was entirely in keeping with his low character. God is not glorified by Christians making cause with Trump, and it's an inconvenient truth that Charlie Kirk did precisely that.

@Catullus5 Are you a disciple of Christ Jesus?

Christians are tasked with loving the unloveable. It would be sad to see this thread descend into the hatred that we witness elsewhere. Most funerals are public events - even at a Christian funeral there may be folk that are not believers. Charlie's funeral was more public than most. I have many friends, just like Charlie, who don't believe what I do. I love them despite (or, maybe even because of) that. Let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone ...

What was striking at the funeral was that Donald Trump said that he hates his enemies and doesn’t want the best for them. This was in contrast to the words of Erica Kirk.

Last week I preached on Luke 6 v27 where Jesus says love your enemies because we are following the Creationtide readings for year C in the Anglican calendar. This form of love and forgiveness isn’t easy thing to do so all credit to Mrs Kirk.

We get lots of prayer requests left in my church for Donald Trump. I haven’t seen one that is positive about him, but from the evidence I’m seeing on our prayer board, Christians are praying for him.

In answer to your question, yes.

In answer to your comments, there is no need for any hatred in our discussion. But while anyone should be welcome at a funeral, who is allowed to speak is quite a different matter.

This is a very dangerous time for the Church. For the first time in my life numbers are increasing and Christianity is. getting reappraised positively. There's definitely a change in the wind. But this will be ruined if Christians allow it to be co-opted by a kind of American nationalism just as Putin has done with Russian Orthodoxy or, for that matter, happened with Protestantism and Catholicism and identities in Ireland. A certain firebrand preacher from the latter place would have described Trump as the man of sin (2 Thess 2:3-4, glorifying nothing but himself and using any means to do this, including Christians led astray, to do this.

One of the readings this morning was 1 Tim 6:6-19, which includes:

But those who want to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and in their eagerness to be rich some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains.

11 But as for you, man of God, shun all this; pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith; take hold of the eternal life, to which you were called and for which you made[a] the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Aligning oneself with Trump is inconsistent with this passage. That is what Kirk did, and it's what his wife has now done. I mean no disrespect to you, and certainly no hate, but this thread is about Charlie Kirk and I think the above is very relevant.

I think you make some interesting points. I’ve just returned from the US and spent time with several friends who I guess could be described as ‘Christian nationalists’. We had lots of thought provoking discussions and although I don’t agree with the basic premise, I now understand it better. For many US Christians, faith and nationalism are so deeply linked that it would be almost impossible to separate.

As I understand it, it’s based on the view that America was an ‘experiment’ founded by Christians with certain Christian values. The US Constitution therefore represents ‘God given rights’ and while anyone is welcome to join America, they must abide by the founding principles. For some, the Constitution is almost on an equal level with God’s Word - designed and dictated by God to the founding fathers. If you accept that basic premise, it’s pretty difficult to untangle the two belief systems. With this in mind, I do think it’s a bit strange that Christian nationalism seems to be moving into UK politics - especially when we don’t have the same premise of a Constitution or founding fathers!

My belief is that as Christians, we serve only one Kingdom, the kingdom of God. I love my country and I’m concerned about many things in our political system but I don’t think the UK is extra special or ‘God breathed’ as such. I’d love to see Christian values implemented in lots of areas but this isn’t something which can ever be forced or mandated and obviously, we have to accept the world has changed and we do have to co-exist peacefully alongside other faiths and practices.

That’s a bit of a long winded response but having just spent a chunk of time in the US, I do have a much better understanding of what it all means.

@ondemand My belief is that as Christians, we serve only one Kingdom, the kingdom of God.

Yes and Amen!

New update about his views before he died www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15171321/amp/Charlie-Kirk-bullying-Jewish-Israel-donors.html

@TheMintCritic He is dead to this life and now with His Saviour. Personally I'm not interested in the Daily Mail picking over the bones of a dead man. 🤐

I had only really heard about him after he died. I think the shooter has left a wife without her husband and two children without a father. I don't believe someone having different opinions deserves to be shot . Did I agree with him on many things ? Not really. I don't identity as being right or left, particularly . I'm very central. But he didn't deserve to be shot. I pray for his family.

@Catullus5 yes I don't want to see the UK become like this . I have already been seeing it a bit amongst UK Christians in social media. I tend to scroll past. We are here to win souls, God could have taken us to heaven after we got born again, that He didn't shows He wants us to fulfil the great commission on earth until He comes. As a disabled person I am concerned about Reform and their plans but I ultimately don't trust any of the parties. I do this God to come through for us, His true body on earth.

@ondemand I think all Christians are responsible for resisting the combining Christianity with anything else, especially nationalism as that is contrary to Galatians 3:28 ("neither Jew nor Greek" etc). Maybe your American friends thing there's no contradiction as Americanism is an idea that anyone can join: it just includes Christianity. There's an awful lot to criticise in the mythology behind that: I will restrict myself to saying that there's nothing in the American Constitution that specifically Christian, and, that the country was built on slavery and land expropriation.

Combining Christianity and nationalism is blasphemous. It makes civic identity equal to following God, or worse, conflates the two. It's why large strands of American Christianity hold that being obscenely rich is a sign of God's blessing, despite Luke 18:25: American culture praises this and has co-opted Christianity, bewitching Christians to look to the material rather than the spiritual to make them perfect (Galatians 3:1-5) . It's also why Donald Trump, perhaps the fifth orange horseman of the Apocalypse, can commit the additional blasphemy of producing and profiting from a Bible that splices in American foundational texts without Charlie Kirk or his widow calling him out on it.

Kirk didn't deserve to be murdered but he's no martyr.

@WalkingTheMiddlePath I think the Church (and by extension us Christians) are rightly under judgement for the things that have been done in the name of Christianity, most recently, child sexual abuse within churches. The Church has lost its authority but I think that's a good opportunity to reflect and get back to basics as Christians. Unfortunately, that means we can't scroll on by. The likes of Tommy Robinson or Brian Tamaki need to be told to get off our turf.

I realise my last post could be read as a bit of a rant but I think this is very important.

Some very interesting points there @Catullus5

“Kirk didn’t deserve to be murdered but he’s no martyr”

I strongly disagree with this statement “he was no martyr”.

A martyr is a witness. That is literally what the word μάρτυς means.

There no doubt in my mind that Kirk was assassinated for his Christian witness on areas of morality in a public political arena.

Mike Winger sums it up pretty well in this short :

https://youtube.com/shorts/RzWnB1d25mc?si=Qgaq4KfUPGFUQ53z

There no doubt in my mind that Kirk was assassinated for his Christian witness on areas of morality in a public political arena.

He seems to have been speaking out on a range of subjects, some clearly Christian and some more controversial. However obviously some people will say those controversial points were also Christian. I don't think it's so clear.

His witness was clearly Christian.

His speech (on a range of subjects) was consistently informed by his Christian faith.

We are back to whether we believe we each have the monopoly on what we believe the Christian faith is about, and whether our interpretation of the Bible or Christian culture is the one true one.

I think he said a lot of good stuff but have issues with some of what he said. He was a human like the rest of us so I'm not surprised. But some people are very black and white and believe all or nothing.

I don't what Charles spoke about the range of subjects, but one of the five missions of at least the Church of England and it might apply to other church's is that we should if we can work on dismantling unjust structures in society to. God promotes justice and wants to see this promoted and it is valued in the faith.

It is good if church going in some areas is going up because of this.

The Five Missions of the Church

1. To proclaim the Good News of the Kingdom

2. To reach baptise and nurture new believers

3. To respond to human need by loving service

4) To seek to perform unjust structures of society to challenge violence of every kind amd to persue peace and reconcilation

5. To strive to safeguarding integrity of creation and to sustain and renew the life of the earth.

I think you’re missing my point.

His speech (on a range of subjects) was consistently informed by his Christian faith.

On some subjects yes. I would say that on some subjects he was informed by the American evangelical culture, which sometimes isn't as evangelical as they might think.

Again, I think you’re misunderstanding me.

His worldview, and consequently his speech was informed by, found its source in, his Christian faith.

This isn’t difficult to understand.

I feel like you're misunderstanding me! I know his worldview was informed by HIS Christian faith. That doesn't mean all of HIS perspective on the Christian faith was right and he was quite controversial in some areas that are perhaps more in line with the evangelical right in America. And not necessarily Jesus!

wow.
now we really are “back to whether we believe we each have the monopoly on what we believe the Christian faith is about, and whether our interpretation of the Bible or Christian culture is the one true one.”

I’m shocked by your reply.

Let’s agree that regardless of whether you or I agree with his Christian theology, he was consistent in speaking in line with it.

And for that the man was assassinated.
Charlie Kirk is a Christian martyr.

I'm not sure what you're shocked by. You must surely know that not all Christians agree on everything and that doesn't mean either party are being unsound? Even in the new testament people disagreed