eczema and cradle cap

[Eartha20]

Hello. My gorgeous three month old daughter has eczema AND cradle cap - the combination is making her scrabble desperately at her head. Both dr and homeopath recommended almond oil but it doesn't make much difference. Would it help her if we tried to get rid of the cradle cap with medicated shampoo? How would that affect the eczema on the rest of her little body and face?

no don't put shampoo on it. get Aveeno cream and lotion. slather her head with the cream twice a day. it will not look pleasant but it will work. resist the urge to pick it. just brush away the flakes when they come off.

do not use any soaps, gels etc in her bath. just reasonably warm water for no more than 10 mins and slather with aveeno lotion 2x a day.

dd1 had awful eczema and aveeno has been a life saver. it is available free on prescription.

Eartha my DD2 suffered terribly with cradle cap and still does not at 2. I always use olive oil on it (not extra virgin) and leave it on overnight and then wash hair in the morning and using a baby comb, the cradle cap should loosen. Keep doing it until it all goes. I am not a doctor but I can't see the olive oil making her eczema worse. Your poor little baby, I suffered with bad eczema as a child and know how she feels.

you could cover her head with aqueous cream at bed time and then wash her head in the morning with nothing but water. Aqueous cream is good for mild ezcema. The aqueous cream would soften the cradle cap crusts and would not aggrievate the ezcema.

Or maybe you could try a different emoliant. Try asking your health visitor, they often know more on how to treat baby skin problems than many GPs.

Thank you all. Will try all till one works! Yes, it's been heartbreaking. The eczema is on her face and body as well. My cheery little baby now spends lots of time scratching and whimpering; broken nights and tears. And she's so tiny, I can't explain to her why she needs to stop scratching. Have been referred to a specialist. It seems to have got worse as the cold weather's come on. That's normal? There are so many things I don't know. Can she wear velour if it's 33 per cent polyester? Will our old feather duvet make things worse? Is the sheepskin in her pram irritating her skin? Help!!

fannybanjo is right.olive oil,soak all night,dont be tempted to pick.
Aqueous cream stings some people....we have a few back at the pharmacy saying it stings so be careful with that one.
Metanium cradle cap cream has 1.5% salicylic acid cream in it which helps to lift off the dead skin and grease.

Everyone's eczema is different. The colder weather, and more specifically central heating, can aggravate it. 100% cotton is often much better against the skin. Sheepskin, feathers and velour could well irritate her.

You need to try cotton fabric for a while and see if it helps. Good luk.

Sounds obvious, but good idea to keep her nails short and put scratch mitts on at bedtime.

dd1 had terrible eczema at this age and I hadn't tried Aveeno yet. in order to prevent scratching I learned to swaddle her really really tightly. In fact I think I swaddled her well past 6 months without her escaping.

I used a thin cotton cloth which was actually a small table cloth.

Oh Eartha your poor little girl. I have been lucky with mine as they haven't had severe eczema. Is she bottle or breast fed? If bottle fed maybe the milk is making it worse, could switching the brand make a difference? Only a thought mind you.

Our experience with eczema and seborrheic dermatitis... but as pointydogg writes, each case is different.

a. natural oils made it worse; vaseline/mineral oils (I know... people don't like them for babies, but it was better than the pus-infected skin which was exarcebated by natural oils) to loosen flakes off. One idea is that natural oils may be used by bacteria/fungi as a nutrient source. Shea butter works for some people (skin); DD was a red rash afterwards.

b. keep the skin clean - wash and moisturise. At first we were doing this three times a day and washing hair twice a day to keep the scalp clean (we were putting a cloth down at night and changing it 3-4 times during the night, just to give you an idea of how weepy her skin was).

c. swaddling - up to 10 months, at which time she kept 'breaking out' of her swaddling. Yes, it was tight but I would rather that than a bloodbath. Better not to start the scrathing cycle than try to break it.

d. as she got older, we used socks on her hands as scratch mitts were too small. Mitts/socks - can still buff skin but at least less damage than scratching.

e. if the skin looks infected, get antibiotic cream from the dr. It will make a huge difference.

f. Aveeno was not good for us. Turns out she has milk allergy and there is milk protein in Aveeno and she was likely reacting to this. I shudder to think of how much of it got rubbed in and I didn't realise I was making things worse.

g. keep a food diary (yours too if she is BF) and a diary of her symptoms as well. It may take a few weeks but it will help you recognise any trends. Might want to include details of how you are treating her skin/scalp too. This was invaluable when we got sent to the paediatrician, dermatologist and allergist; they appreciated having so much history and knowledge accumulated.

h. be patient. It may take a while to figure out. It has taken us two years but her skin looks normal now!

i. be prepared to try different things e.g. ways of handling eczema, and different creams.

j. we found Weleda best for her scalp and washing her skin when it was very icky. Otherwise, bath is just water although did use Oilatum at one point and found this good. As she has gotten older, we started to use Spectro Kids and it has nipped the last bit in the bud (wash her once a day with the liquid soap, moisturise after bath at night and first thing in the morning. At height of eczema, moisturising every nappy change +). Must add though that eczema is under control as it is food related and she is on a strict diet (milk and egg very bad).

k. don't do exclusion diets unless your diary suggests a very good reason for it. If you do, be ruthless and make no exceptions. Plan meals in advance!

l. come to MN!

Good luck! I can remember how hard and soulbreaking this is... I look at pictures taken on a 'good' day and am horrified. The turning point was when I was BF and watching pus ooze out from under her scalp. I cried. She was put on oral steroids for two days due to a severe chest infection/high IgE (allergy-related antibodies); we took her out of the bath (first time in months two adults didn't have to compete with her scratching frenzies!) and laid her on a towel in amazement - this was what a 'normal' baby was like!

BUT you will work something out to help DD. Have hope.

The main thing with eczema is to prevent the skin drying out (possibly why central heating can aggravate?) with emolients which helps maintain the skins natural barrier which keeps moisture in and harmful things out. If this breaks down stuff gets into the deeper layers of the skin and that causes inflammation and infection. The stuff that our skin comes into day to day contact with without any problems in an eczema sufferer can trigger reactions, hence all the special detergents, avoidance of certain fabrics etc. Depending on the severity of the eczema is dependant on what type of emmolient you may need. I started off with aqueous cream and double base on my little boy but he now uses hydromol which is like lard (we call it his channel swimming grease). The aqueous really helped with his cradle cap though - softens the scales which then can be gently brushed with a baby brush before bathing. Sometimes eczema can become infected with bacteria or fungus so if it gets really stubborn get it checked out by the doc as it could need something like daktacort or fucadinH to clear up. My poor baby's was so bad by the time it eventually got diagnosed he had to have oral antibiotics but thankfully it is a bit more under control now.

I forgot to mention - never use wet wipes with ezcema. Cotton wool and water or make your own wipes to carry round in a tub using some peices of fleece soaked in cold cammomile tea. It really helps. My DS gets it bad under his chin from the drool so I give him a wipe under there before each nappy change then smother all the sore bits in hydromol which seems to help.

thanks, mamakouia, really glad to hear your little one is okay. valuable stuff you put down there. it's been an awful night and day with dd desperate to sleep but waking herself up scrabbling at her scalp and just weeping with frustration. i lifted some plaques off with a baby comb yesterday after soaking them in almond oil and wondered if that had made her scalp more sensitive. i can barely touch her head to put more almond oil on it. she's starting to comfort feed (we're BF) every two hours to get some rest and relief. i don't mind but between that and her short interrupted nap (40 min) we haven't gone out today. my partner seems angry with every decision i've made regarding her (well, you might agree with him on one. I'm using steroid creams on some patches on her face) and i've no family in the country so i'm starting to feel incredibly isolated! just keep going i guess. will try an aveeno baby bath tonight. can't find a stockist for the cream in the UK.

Eartha, first things first... there's a reason we actually called it cradle CRAP in our household Kind of tells you how we felt about it.

Don't pick at the scales as you will expose tender skin below. If the scales are going to come off with oil and washing, they will but don't try to make it happen faster. The scalp is not going to clear up immediately but take a bit of time.

Is the skin broken or does it appear infected? If it's infected this just makes eczema worse, it itches more and this interferes with the healing as LO will scratch more, making it worse (as catblack1974 says). Don't know the extent of your DD's cradle cap but you should be able to gauge it. If necessary get some antibiotic cream/ointment (thicker so 'sticks' to the skin better) from the GP. If the skin is infected, it will not cure the eczema but it will make a difference.

Hydrocortisone was a bit of a battle here too but skin needs a break to heal as well. One approach to dealing with eczema is getting it under control and keeping it there. Ideally, triggers can be identified and avoided but this isn't always the case.

Drooling... this caused havoc so we made little 'cravattes' (rolled up bibs) to absorb and periodically changed it. A couple of them almost looked stylish!

My DD was allergic to Almond oil. Basically they can be allergic to anything so you could try stripping back the things you are using, then adding them back one at a time. I even treated half the baby with one thing at a time to see what worked and what didn't! I don't even use soap, just occasionally Dove.

I'm just back from a month trip where we didn't bath DD very often- every 2/3 days, simply cos it was bit difficult. Her skin improved a lot. I actually wouldn't worry too much about the cradle cap unless it is bugging her.

I used a lipobase cream from the Dr, put it on her head for an hour before her bath them combed her hair. Over about three weeks this sorted it out.

Managing eczema is a pain, but you will get on top of it. And apparently lots of kids grow out of it. Good luck.

Our experience with cradle crap which worked with both our dds was to cover the affected ares of the head in Vaseline and then in the morning, pick off the scales. A HV told me to do this and then said 'but I dodn't say this' - it worked a treat and I only had to do it once with each of them.

DD1 had and still has very bad eczema. Try to work out the triggers if at all possible. DD1's is triggered by temperature- i.e she is much better kept cool. We use a combination of Doublebase emollient, a emollient in the bath and hydrocortisone when it is very bad.

There has been an interesting thread in the Allergies section about the effect of cutting dairy products out of dcs diets. I'm currently cutting dairy out of my own diet while bfing dd2 - hopefully I will let you know if it affects her eczema.

By the way Eartha there is a lot of information about eczema on the allergies section of MN. Good luck

eartha my ds's eczema was nowhere near as bad as you are describing and yet I was beside myself with worry and sadness about it
please take care of yourself and if your dp is not supportive then please find someone who IS - you are in desperately hard spot and need love and care yourself
good luck with finding the answer - my ds grew out of it almost completely and we never found the trigger - i have heard many parents say their child grew out of it too, while others learn to manage and control symptoms to some extent

Another thing to try on your list - oilatum bath emollient. you can get it prescribed for bathing and just rub it neat onto her damp head. My DS had dreadful CC and excema, and my FIL recommended scraping it off with a comb !! Needless to say we didnt do that!

The oilatum worked a treat within a week it was gone!

Its so easy to blame yourself for every mishap/unfortunate random event/illness that befalls your child. Just bear that in mind and try to be kind to yourself - especially as you feel unsupported by your DP. Read the book "What mothers Do" it is FANTASTIC at making you feel better about being a mum and not being a superhero!

thank you all again - and yes, i'm starting to realise how easy it is to blame myself for using the wrong soap, wrong cream, combing, not combing etc etc. we've managed to avoid infection - so far. the cradle cap's pretty bad, a tiny mohican of oily crusts (dd rubbed off the plaques on either side herself). a couple of hvs have commented but i held off combing them off for fear of more damage. then i noticed dd getting herself in knots trying to reach her pate which, if i run my fingers over it, feels like crusted sand. that's when i started thinking, i'm applying all this almond oil (2-3 times at night, more during the day) but it's only reaching the crusts and not the eczematic, potentially itchy skin underneath. tried an aveeno baby bath and a new camomile oil for scalp today. the combination seems to help by super-softening the crusts so they crumble without my doing anything. dp doing his best. he's just as distressed as i am but he gets to walk away to work in the morning which makes him feel less involved. we make sure that, when she's not crying or tired, she has lots of fun to make up for this! am also going to try to cut out dairy as it seems a key potential culprit so let me know how you get on, whelk.

FWIW i would not be using a nut oil on an atopic child

i was also wondering if having crusty plaques resting on delicate scalp skin could be upsetting dd?

good point franny. let's see how the camomile oil shapes up.

THIS WORKS:
I put breast milk on my 3 month old daughters cradle cap, which was on her scalp and face. It cleared the scaly skin on her forehead in 2 or 3 days, and has almost cleared the flakes on her head after 5 days. I just rub a bit on and leave it to dry on her head, nothing else. I don't wash it off. It's naturally antiseptic so this is a safe and clean option.

I tried oils and shampoos when she was 2 months, and ultimately they made things worse. Oils just seem to mask the look of it but cause it to grow back more aggressively. So I left it for a month and tried this breastmilk remedy. It's full of natural antibodies and stuff so I guess it makes sense. It also cleared a sticky red eye overnight. :O

I'm so relieved to see that other people have managed to alleviate their babies' eczema and cradle cap. We've already had one round of infected cradle cap here, which meant five days of antibiotics. Then the pustules and scabs cleared up...and the cradle cap started again.

Anyway - a question for those of you who've been there. When the cradle cap spots started weeping their disgusting oily ooze, did you continue to moisturise with Diprobase/Aveeno/whatever you were using? I worry about letting the cream get into open and weeping spots. Should I be putting Fucidin on the sores instead? My GP is kind of dismissive about my concerns about the cradle cap and I have a feeling I'll get better advice from mums who've been through it.

For the record: we bathe every 4-5 days in Oilatum; have tried Cetraben, Epaderm and Diprobase for the eczema but nothing works as well as the tiny trial-size tube of Triple Cream that I got in the US and have ordered more of. I'm trying Diprobase on the scalp, after the GP suggested baby oil, which did nothing.