If you decided to postpone baby jabs...

[thehouseofmirth]

how long did you delay them for and what was the rationale for your decision?

gosh no idea! Have found it really hard to find that sort of information. I would tend to guesstimate by looking at adult figures and assuming that those in 20's would have been vaccinated and therefore vaccine failures. It's not impossible given that numbers of measles cases are low (despite govt propaganda suggestions). I mean unvaccinated ds2 has gone 7 years without exposure to measles, which would have been unthinkable when I was growing up.

thank you beachcomber the gen rescue site seems reasonable, humble and fantastically interesting.

although tbh ruty- that's the sort of thing that richard halvorsen might have at his fingertips - he would have easier access to that sort of information.

saintly hi i think i know who you are too! you know richard halvorsen's phone receptionist put me off by saying 'oh yes, your ds will have to have all his singles.' before we'd even come in. needless to say I didn't...

Halvorsen saw us with no probs privately soph.

Think that is the receptionist. Have spoken to a few people Halvorsen has advised NOT to have jabs at all.

My point in seeing him would be for advice, rather than just having a course (could do that locally). When I emailed him (aged ago) he was happy to do an advice session though and talk through which ones would be given and/or not.

ok will give another go. she REALLY put me off. but will deffo do it.

Does anyone know of severe reactions occuring in older children (over 5yo) who had previously had no vacs and were then given measles and polio vacs for example?

medical receptionist

he's great Soph, gave us great advice.

but thank you soph- I feel forewarned. Should try and get an appointment for the boys soon (esp for tetanus).

sooty - I read your posts with interest and am in agreement with you except on one point, which you might be able to clarify for me, because I never understood the reasoning for it (and I have a MSc in Immunology) - I had german measles/rubella when I was 10, common as anything, few spots, mild fever, few days off school, no prob. So when it came to the school vaccine aged 13, I told them I didn't need it because I'd already had german measles but they said it was possible to get it again so I still had to have the jab. Were they right?

Another thing sooty - I think your idea of finding out numbers of atopic etc. conditions in unvaccinated as opposed to vaccinated childrent would not work, as many of the people who don't vaccinate choose not to precisely BECAUSE their child has an atopic condition, or there is a strong family history of it. Shame though!

Shitemum - my bf had her DS vaccinated with MMR aged 5 and she tried to research severe reactions - couldn't really get satisfactory answers on it but she was reassured sufficiently by the consultant she saw that her DS was considerably less likely to have an adverse reaction at that age. And he didn't - among the reasons she had waited so long was that he had had unpleasant reactions to previous baby jabs, and she was taking no chances. The consultant said she had done the right thing, IHO.

i don't think they were right thumbwitch - having rubella, as long as it was definitely rubella - gives you life long immunity - the jab however, gives limited immunity, which means giving babies the rubella jab could potentially create whole generations of young women who are not immune to rubella at all.

and there is currently no scheduled rubella booster system in place for teenage girls which i think is scandalous.

the rubella thing - silly isn't it? Still, I know I'm good and immune to it, I had my levels checked when I worked in a hospital lab and they were >100. Some of the other women had to be boosted because their antibody levels had dropped off below an acceptable immunity level - echoing what Ruty said about limited immunity from the vaccine.

I am also intrigued about longterm effects of vaccines, especially things like autoimmune diseases that get you later in life, rheumatoid arthritis, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, MS etc.; some of which are linked to aluminium and other toxic metal exposures.

Not immunizing is very bad. And incredibly selfish.

Immunizing is better - although only 10% of jabs are apparently effective.

Rubella can harm children: it can cause idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP) which may require hospitalisation. In other rubella cases a post-infectious condition can occur called acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM), which can be life-threatening and definitely needs admission to hospital.

Sooty7: I do think your statement about the number of pregnancies being affected by rubella as being "tiny, really tiny" is not right. Pre-rubella vaccination there were large epidemics all over the world with many many babies affected. The risks to a pregnancy of rubella infection in the first trimester are huge with 90% transmission rate to the baby and a 90% likelihood of severe defects.

Even when single rubella vaccination was introduced, no boys received it and a few girls would miss being protected. So rubella could still circulate whilst a group of susceptibles builds up; eventually being enough to support an epidemic. Imperfect vaccination pushes the average age of infection up and so girls get it later; more likely when they're of child-bearing age.

no one really knows how long MMR immunity lasts, it probably varies with each individual, but certainly there are many cases of women who have had the rubella vaccination then being tested whilst pregnant and showing no immunity.

Rubella IgG antibodies are just a surrogate marker for immunity. Cell-mediated immunity will undoubtedly exist though, and so any person having definitely had two rubella vaccinations is considered immune even without detectable IgG.

ITP can also be a result of MMR vaccination [rare and usually mild form] ITP and ADEM rather rare complication of rubella. ADEM can also be a complication of Chickenpox. [not advocating not vaccinating for rubella]