Medised. Are people still giving it to under twos?

[MoooCow]

I have given my baby medised in the past when she has has a bad cough and cold. I have just bought a bottle today and it now says for over 2's. I cant see that the ingredients have changed, just wondering if anyone is still giving it to under two's.

Being prescribed it is something totally different. A GP can prescribe pretty much anything they want - they then take that responsibility for that medicine in that child in that cirsumstance.

The GP will also have stronger meds available for prescription where necessary.

I was giving it but have stopped now the age has been increased so dramaically to 6.

I have also posted in AIBU about the inability of medised to post a warning on its website

Now I am in full support of the age limit being increased to 6.

But I don't see why Medised should have to post a warning.

The new guidlines state that it is safe to use up existing stock. It WILL NOT be removed from shelves until the stocks have been sold - our at least the general sale products which are available in Tesco on teh open shelves can still be purchased until they are gone - not 100% sure how this works with medised which is OTC. Pharmacists may not sell to under 6's...but the other products on the list will be.

It was different last year. There was an immediate removal from open shelves of the affected products. And measures immediately put into place to prevent the sale for use in under 2's. AFAIK this hasn't happened this time.

I started a thread a few weeks ago to see if anyone would give medised to a 14mo. DD was very snotty and grotty bless her, couldn't breath to eat and sleep etc. MN said yes, I did, DD looked (and I suspect) felt much better and was able to eat, drink etc.

TBH the medised didn't really make her sleep but did make her drowsy and it messed up her night time sleeping patterns.

I would give it to DD again if she got as snotty and grotty again. She is nearly 16mo now. I am pg and would give it to this lo should she ever need it, but probably only from 6+ months as I don't have an older box to know the dosage.

I cant believe that are changing it to 6+ years all because some stupid parents are still giving it with other medicines such as Calpol

Oh and BTW my DH swears on medised for himself when he is feeling snotty and grotty.

They have not chnaged it just because pearents were giving it with Calpol:

That reason is about the risk v benefit.

There is in most of the population little medical benefit of these medications. On the other hand there is a risk that - as has been said - these medicines can mask more serious symptoms, or prolong an illness (as a cough and fever are both parts of the immune system). There is also a GENUINE (albeit reasonably infrequent) risk of more serious complications - such as excessive drowsiness, prolonged sleepiness, hallucinations....

So it is not felt by the people that regulate these medicines that the RISKS are GREATER than the BENEFITS. This has been determined by people that UNDERSTAND the risks and the benefits.

Furthermore - just to show the utter madness in teh cough medicine industry - some medicines have been withdrawn completely. These are medicines which contain an "anti-tussive" - which basically suppresses a cough and an "expectorant" whcih stimulates a cough IN THE SAME BOTTLE!!!! it is sheer madness, and about time that an objective review was conducted.

this explans WHY they have been changed

I am a mum of three.

If the DCs just have a bit of a temperature, I leave nature to take its course, as it's probably a natural process. I do make sure they're not overdressed and that their bedding is light, however. I make sure they have lots of fluids, and sit in their room a bit to keep them company.

If their temperatures are a bit higher, and they are grumpy and obviously suffering a bit I do all that plus give them some Calpol or Ibuprofen, the lowest dose for their age.

If they are really struggling a bit, and their temperature is around the 40 mark, I also measure their temperatures with a thermometer and keep a record of it, put them in a nappy or pair of pants, with a sheet over them, and alternate Calpol and Ibuprofen at the highest dose on the label on the bottle, in a very scientific and regimented manner with a record being kept. I also check for meningitis etc. I would consider putting them in a lukewarm bath or shower and letting them have a play, partly to cool them down a bit, partly to cheer them up, and partly to see what their reaction is to the changed environment.

If they are ill for a longer period of time (eg 6 hours during the day) with no occasional periods of respite or relative cheerfulness at all, or not taking fluids, I would always call the GP or NHS Direct for advice.

If they are over about 6 months, and bunged up as well as having a temperature, and look like they could do with a good night's sleep to fight to bug off, I would dose them with Medised instead of using Calpol, watching the overall dose of Paracetemol they got in any 24 hour period so there was no liver damage. I would tell my GP I had done this.

BTW I have never given mine cough mixtures or things like that - they just get honey in hot water, or Bryonia homeopathic stuff if we happen to have some in the house, because most coughs go of their own accord, and if they don't, the GP needs to see the child.

Ermmmmm Medised is a cough mixture......and considering how regimented you are around the dosage of other meds I am surprised you give medised to a 6mo.

Lukewarm showers and baths are also not recommended as they cause the body to overcompensate...

And a fever should have medical attention aboev 39.5C IMO....so I would doing a bit more when it hit 40

I know all that, SlightlyMad, but 22 years of experience with my particular offspring has shown this particular regime to work OK for us, and more importantly do no harm - if other people want to do differently, so be it. I certainly haven't had the over-compensation problem everyone goes on about at the moment, so I reckon the environment you do this in must play a part (eg modern centrally heated house) as well as your behaviour afterwards (eg nappy and light sheet over the child concerned).

BTW Medised contains diphenhydramine hydrochloride, which is an anti-histamine and sedative. It's not a cough mixture.

Paracetemol is a pretty scary drug IMO because you don't have to take much at all to get liver damage.

Also Medised contains paracetemol so should not be given at the same time as Calpol; it's an either/or situation. I understand this confusion is why it was withdrawn for OTC use for smaller children.

The only thing I was trying to point out was that 39.5 is the recommended temperature at which to at least seek medical advice - so that is what I would advise for the wider audience of a forum.

Environmnet DOES play a part. It is recommened thin layers and warm baths....but not nappy only/lukewarm. I dressed my baby in just a nappy (recommened by HV) when she had a fever, took her to walk in and when we got seen her skin was mottled...that was part of the over compensation as the blood was diverted from the skin to keep core body warm...which is actually want to cool. I have seen it happen.

And Medised IS a cough medicine in that diphenhydramine hydrochloride is primarily used to treat "coughs and colds".

Medised was not removed from sale solely becaause of mixing with Paracetamol. It was one of teh reported reasons but the primary (reported) reason was the risk of overdose with "anti-histamine" because people were (apparently) using cough mixture A and cough mixture B with different active ingrediants - but A abd B were both anti-histamines and therefore an overdose of "anti-histamine cocktails" was the PRIMARY risk. That combined with the smaller bodies of under 2's......

Well not being a medical doctor I am not advising anybody to do anything. I am just reporting what we do and will keep doing, because I have been more than satisfied with the results.

If in doubt, people should speak to their GPs who are perfectly at liberty to prescribe Medised for under-twos if necessary.

I also happen to know that comparatively few of the drugs regularly prescribed for children have been properly tested on them, so if we were all going to avoid medicines on this basis they'd be very little for them to take. That's more or less the case with pg women too. Both groups are neglected by drug companies IMO.

I'm a GP and have never prescribed Medised to a child. If necessary, I will prescribe paracetamol and a sedating antihistamine seperately as I find this makes dosing easier and mistakes from combining drugs less likely. I never prescribe sedating antihistamines or cough medicines for respiratory infections as coughing has an important role in helping clear infection and mucus from the respiratory tract. Usually the only time I prescribe sedating antihistamines to babies is for severe eczema when the itch is preventing them sleeping.

Regarding antipyretics, NICE recommend avoiding giving ibuprofen and paracetamol simultaneous but don't disencourage alternating medicines when necessary. In trials, ibuprofen has been proven to reduce fever quicker and for longer than paracetamol alone. In the same trial, simultaneous administration of both was not proven to show any additional efficacy, hence the guidance. Interestingly, NICE specifically advises about NOT giving antipyretics with the sole aim of trying to avoid a febrile convulsion- bizarre advice and I'm not sure what the basis of this is.

FWIW- I will often give my son (15mo) ibuprofen first-line for a fever or pain, and will try to leave a dose available for bedtime to get him through the night. If the fever peaks within 6hrs of having the ibuprofen, I will give him paracetamol. I will often alternate medicines on the days when he has a difficult temp to control- he often spikes to 40-41 with infections.

Might I add, that it is just as important to remember other cooling methods to help reduce fever. Cooler rooms, fewer clothes (vest or nappy and socks), cool drinks, fans. I almost despared yesterday at the number of feverish children I saw in surgery who were wrapped up in several layers of clothing despite being hot and miserable.

Thanks for posting Emma, that was very useful.