Choosing to vaccinate. Honestly how much research did/do you do?

[stroppyknickers]

I am interested because I do not think that the people I know have actually done much more than gone along with the reminder letters (vaccinated) read a couple of articles in the press (either/ or) or googled it (again either/or). Genuinely, how easy is it to make an informed decision because imo who has the time to download research papers and analyse them? I think a lot of people go with tabloid horror stories/ strident hvs or gut feeling. Is it actually possible to make a genuinely neutral and informed decision?

Yes -- come on mn and get both sides, all the links you'll ever need, personal experiences and a very robust debate.

apart from mumsnet then!

I am currently into my 14th month and spend on average 5 hours a week, I have read these books: the truth about vaccines-richard halverson., Are vaccines really safe and effective, neil z millar, what doctor may not tell you about vaccines,Dr Stephanie Cave, How to raise a vaccine free child, how to raise a healthy child inspite of your doctor, fear of the invisible - vaccines and HIV.

I am also taking a course in diseases, and the histroy of diseases.

I also spend at least 1 hour a day reading studies and reports online, and I also keep and file all media reports of diseases outbreaks.

One of my children is fully vaccinated, the other is on a wait and see 'pause'.

Thanks - is that 14th mth of research?

I did none with DS1 and he had everything up to age 3.
none again with ds2 then he was badly vaccine damaged so i have read LOADS for DD and she has had none.

I think people who have no personal issue - either for or against tend to respond emotionally and do what they instinctively feel is safest. which is totally understandable and reasonable given how we tend to base our childrens health care almost entirely upon what NHS govt say

It's very hard to know where to find objective advice. I think you are right - but my instincts were more based on my mother's Daily Mail habit for dd then on any factual information. Genuinely sorry to hear about your ds - we have some distressing health stuff this end and it is hard. Take care.

Are you asking re the MMR?

If so I struggled to find any non biased research on it either way. I was in two minds for a long time. I have since decided to go with the single vacs as I don't think I would have been able to sit confy with the MMR TBH.

DD had her rubella last week and is having her measles next month.

I have a background in risk assessment, I don't have any problem with risk being relative and people finding different balances of risk acceptable (given the same evidence, you and I can validly differ over which risks are greatest, which are acceptable and which are not).

I feel like I did research MMR a fair bit; no I didn't read umpteen papers but I read some and I read (and still read) arguments both sides. I definitely wouldn't rely on the Tabloid press for information, though .

So I feel like I came to a pretty objective and neutral decision in deciding to vaccinate, not perfect though there isn't a zero risk option in this decision. It hugely annoys me when some people say "I couldn't live with exposing my child to the risks of vaccination" as though there are no risks in not vaccinating. You're taking a chance, no matter what you do.

I was in a slow phase of my PhD when the original hoo-ha happened (doing same experiment each week for 11 months, with many bits of 'incubate 2 hours'). So I read Nature and the BMJ each week as well as all the daily papers, and ended up reading every paper that came out on MMR.

And since then have read loads about vaccines, babies, and also why people believe and make the choices they do, plus worked in risk assessment. And I still don't consider myself qualified to assess vaccine safety in detail. Immunology is a horribly complex subject (and my doctorate is in medical molecular biology!)

A is having the standard jabs although I waited a couple weeks for the 4-month ones until a cold and his BCG lump went away. And I had the MMR a couple weeks ago to help protect him until he can have it.

yes, mmr particularly. It seems that most decisions (mine and my peers) are based on a kind of tabloid/broadsheet basis of information, plus chat with other parents - all a bit anecdotal. So, if you don't vaccinate are you doing it because you are worried or because you don't know the 'real' facts. I made a decision in the end because the consultant when ds had meningitis had a colleague who had (the year prev) reserached vaccines and found them safe generally. So I took his advice. Thank you -ljkkk and notcitrus - it is v interesting to hear from people who are able to properly find neutral information.

The main problem is you can't tell if your child will react badly or not
I read various stuff online and talked to various medical family members

sadly, not enough before dd1.

loads more since then, and dd2 is not vaccinated at all.

I read loads - my gp said it best
"read all you can, then trust your instinct"

There are risks no matter what you decide -YOU have to be comfortable with your decision.

It's just very hard to find anything and online I'm not sure what is qualck stuff and what is factual and respectable. I think a lot of people have strong opinions based on the tabloid scare stuff which kind of muddies the waters - for example my mum is cross I vaccinated ds2 based on DM articles.

I work in a job with lots & lots of doctors. I spoke to lots & lots of doctors. And I got their honest opinions (off the record) and, yes, they did have different opinions.
In the end DH & I had a long chat and made a gut decision to have DS vaccinated.

A little boy on our street has just had his legs amputated after contracting meningitis - he wasn't vaccinated.

My cousin's little boy has vaccine related (they think - he is under investigation) problems

Thank you for all your replies. DS 3 had meningitis so I'm not sure about the implications (if any) of vaccinations.

I have read quite a lot on the subject. I was working in the disability field when the MMR hoohah first exploded. I did meet several parents who were absolutely firm on the fact that it was after the innoculation that their child started changing (inc one mother whose child had taken part in the original Wakefield stufy). This is not scientific evidence that the jabs changed them, but it is extremely compelling.

That said I wasn't vaccinated against whooping cough because of a scare around the time I was born. Of course I caught whooping cough and was very ill with it.

And having worked in the area of disability I am very aware of the lifelong impact diseases like Polio can have.

So I have had DD (22 months) vaccinated against most things so far, but I plan to do the MMR seperately.

I vaccinated my children without really thinking about it, on the advice of my GP. Afterwards I got some funny looks from other parents for being so relaxed about it, so did loads of research into it. I still think I made the right choice and am about to have my second child vaccinated.

I did a fair bit of reading, and piggybacked a bit on my sister, who is a paed and changed her mind about vaccination after seeing the impact on her ds1 after the first bout (nothing too major, but enough to get her thinking about the issues)

In the end I did do some vaccinations, she did none after that.

For MMR, I was worried as we have ASD in the extended family. I read about it a lot and did look at some original research. i saw plenty of scientific research suggesting no link between MMR and autism, that I found convincing - but also parents' group sites and blogs that had a basis on which to attack every single study, eg in Japan they stopped doing MMR and did single jabs and found no difference, but the critics claimed the jabs they did were still to close together. And so on and so on.

I still think that, if you measure the whole population, even if MMR only affects a few particular children who are susceptible to a "trigger", rates of ASD would be higher in children who have had MMR - and it doesn't seem to. In fact in one study they were slightly lower though not to a statistically significant extent. That is convincing, but OTOH I'm aware of historical precedents of cover-ups and skewed/faked research, so I know it's possible. After all this I wasn't surprised when our GP and HV were extremely neutral and reserved on the matter and said they couldn't make any decisions for us. Presumably if they say "yes get the vax" and then any adverse reaction happens at all, they're scared they'll get complaints, even though there are always a few bad reactions and always have been.

Soooo, on reflection we have gone for all the available vaccinations. We are basically sciency at heart I think and the rise of measles is a factor. One of DS's friends got it and that did put the wind up me.

One thing I really still can't understand though re MMR. Wakefield - putting aside aspersions cast on his methods and interests - found measles in the guts of children who had had MMR and who had ASD regression problems and bowel problems, as I understand it. I just don't see how that leads to doubts about MMR. Surely everyone could have measles in their gut whether they have MMR or a single jab, and whether they have ASD and/or gut problems or not. Couldn't they? What does it show? I can't see how it shows anything at all. I may have misunderstood it but if the measles virus is the issue, what's that got to do with MMR as opposed to single jabs?

i think he felt it was more likely to occur when the body was fighting three virus' at once - combined with and the different method of 'infection'( via injection) of an illness which is normally air born.

and i seem to remember that the measles strain found was the same as in the vaccination rather than wild.
But my memory is crap so feel free to dispute.

Thanks pagwatch - but did he show that? - for example by looking at children who had single jabs in the exact same way? From what I understand, he didn't, and what he "felt was more likely" shouldn't stand as a scientific discovery - though I'm prepared to be corrected if he did use a control.

I think to make a fully informed decision on the basis of your criteria you would need to be a trained scientist.

I'm not.

I spoke to the HVs, googled and read pro and con sites, discussed it with my DH and some trusted mum friends.

DD1 fully vaccinated, DD2 will be. No history of reactions in either family so felt this would be the best decision for us. So far it seems to be. Feel it is a reasonably "informed" decision.

BTW noones business but our own so not actually sure whether DM or DMIL even knows what we chose to do re vaccinations and I'm sorry yours are giving you grief.