Toddler molar problem potentially

[Sylviaplathforever]

Just wanted some advice before I visit dentist with my son.
we haven’t been yet , he’s 3,5.
i am not sure what’s that on his tooth. I can’t seem to clean it. Posted it on mums group on fb and they all say cavity. Im certain this wasn’t their month ago. In fact there was something smaller and after much cleaning and fighting I managed to clean it off. Now it’s this ! I bought tartar remover on eBay just to gently try to take it off, then I will book appointment. But maybe someone’s child had a similar issue ?
its so hard to get there, he’s gagging when I try to clean and I can’t imagine that he will let dentist do much …

It does look like a cavity. Potentially if things have been stuck in that space before it's enabled it to become damaged if it's a tricky spot to clean. He definitely needs to go to the dentist.

That’s decay , they need to see a dentist.

first things first are you cleaning their teeth for them? Children can brush their teeth themselves but an adult needs to go over again, until they are at least 8 because they don’t have the dexterity to do a proper job.

You need to look at what they are eating and drinking inbetween meals and make sure that anything sugary/starchy is kept to meal times only. Every time they have even a sip or a bite or something sugary/starchy the teeth are under attack for an hour afterwards.

That’s not just sweets/biscuits/cakes but yoghurts,fruit juice, smoothies, raisins, flapjacks, cereals , etc. what they eat or drink at meal times doesn’t matter it’s the grazing inbetween that’s the problem.

Make sure, even if they brush their teeth afterwards , they drink only water , just before bed and at nighttime and they do not eat anything sugary/starchy just before bedtime .

Do not use the tartar remover , book a dentist. This tooth is supposed to last until they are 10 to 12 and it has only been in their mouth for a short time. They need to see a dentist but most particularly they need to change their diet.

It's a cavity and needs filling asap. The hole is much larger under the enamel so you'll need to act quickly before he has to have an extraction. The opposite tooth also appears to have some decay.

I'm a dental professional and you'll need to assess his dental hygiene and diet.

Thanks everyone, I will set appointment for tomorrow. I’ve already asked in two places. Cheaper one was £65 for checkup. I have also ordered bliss energetics remineralising putty.
my kid eats tons of fresh vege and fruit. We don’t really do juice. No sugary yoghurt. I try best for his diet. He had treats occasionally.
I brush his teeth with electric toothbrush . 2 mins with timer on which he switches on and he enjoys brushing.
He had tiny spot on that tooth month ago and at one point I finally managed to clean it off. That’s why I didn’t think it’s a cavity.
but now it’s back and you guys say it’s defo cavity so I’m extra worried .
I just took better photo for reference.
i obviously feel like a terrible mother and I thought I’m doing well.
well , I shall post after appointment so maybe this can help some other mum

Remineralising putty is a waste of money .
The decay is caused by something they are eating or drinking inbetween meals , even just a sip or bite, especially if they are a grazer or snacker.

Dreid fruit like raisins , or processed fruit like winders liberate the sugar in fruit , are sticky and just as bad as sweets . Whole fruit is not a problem although fruit juice and smoothies are as bad as other sugared drinks. Honey , agave syrup etc is just as bad for teeth as white sugar.

Do a food diary over three days with everything they eat or drink and the times, even if it’s just a sip or a bite . Take it with you to the dentist so they can advise you what changes you need to make to the diet .

The photo shows decay , not just the brown bit you can see.

Final thought , are you using a toothpaste with fluoride in it ? Often see a lot of decay in adults and children using non fluoride toothpastes.

@Lollygaggle no, I use Urtekram fluoride free toothpaste. He still so young and swallows quite a lot of foam/toothpaste so how can it be safe for him to use fluoride ? 😥

Ok so there is the problem. Fluoride free toothpaste .

Fluoride is present in many things from potatoes to tea . Unless they are in an area of very high natural fluoride eg Colorado , Rift Valley etc and you are using a pea sized amount of toothpaste and supervising toothbrushing fluoride toothpaste is perfectly safe.

In a child this age , when decay is extensive the only treatment possible is a general anaesthetic and to take teeth out. That has definite health risks. This tooth has only been in his mouth 18 months or so. It is supposed to last him until he is 10 or 12 .

It is your choice but the fact I could guess he was using fluoride free toothpaste should tell you something.

My DS had cavities in all of their molars at 3.5 years old. They have a problem with the enamel of their teeth not having formed correctly - hence all the decay. I was quite worried about the treatment but the dentist was amazing. They don't use any drills and worked very quickly.They put silver diamine fluoride on the teeth- it's a topical liquid and arrests the cavities. It does turn the decayed area black but they are the back molars and can't be seen. Then the dentist put fissure seals over the molars. I've been told that he will likely need more treatment when he is a bit older (stainless steel crowns).
He's a NHS patient and we got a referral to a NHS paediatric specialist dentist. Out regular dentist can't do any treatment on a child of that age.

Also no numbing injections needed for this treatment either. Hopefully they would be able to do something similar for your child

@QWERTYKeys123 okay I do hope so. I can’t imagine him being put to sleep or drilled or any of this. It’s it’s not what a child should go through . I’m glad your sons teeth got treated and hope they will remain strong. 🙏🩷

you really need to be using toothpaste with fluoride in

My daughter has a cavity due to severe silent reflux and staining on two other molars. The damage was caused whilst her reflux was uncontrolled by medication for about 6 months. Since then she has had fluoride treatment at the dentist every 3 months, has a high fluoride toothpaste and we are very careful with her diet and ensuring her reflux is managed by medication and the cavity is stable. The dentist is now optimistic that she won't need it filling/ capping or removing she's 4.5, the cavity was found at 3

There's your answer why your child has tooth decay at such a young age. Fluoride toothpaste is an absolute game changer and would have almost certainly prevented your child needing invasive dental treatment. It's completely safe otherwise it wouldn't be on sale. Looking at your photo, he will need at a minimum, the tooth drilling or extraction. Sorry to be harsh, but that's the situation.

I just wanted to say that you are not a terrible mother - a terrible mother would be one who could see the decay on their child's tooth yet did nothing about it. You are taking your little boy to the dentist, who will treat it. You have made a mistake by using fluoride free toothpaste, but now you know not to, you will not repeat the mistake. To be honest, I didn't know that you could get fluoride free toothpaste for children. I was very keen that my children would have fluoride because when I was small it didn't really exist for most. It was not until I was around six or seven that it really started to become established. I can remember being given a free tube of Signal 2 toothpaste from school. Fluoridation was a very hot topic in the sixties and seventies. Fluoride toothpaste came in time for my second teeth and I have not had too many problems.
Every mother in the world makes mistakes with her children in different ways and we are the best people at beating ourselves up. The good thing is that we can learn from our mistakes and move on. You are getting him the help he needs before the decay progresses even further and becomes painful and abcessed. Hopefully, it is just the one tooth that is affected and with the good advice you have had here and will have in person with your dentist there will be no further problems with his teeth.

Quite a big difference between not being aware there was fluoride free toothpaste available and actively seeking something out that has meant a child has suffered damage to their teeth though. I'm all for supporting parents, but when silly unresearched decisions cause harm it's hard to get behind it.

Hi did you see a dentist?

@Zoeloudav8 hi , yes of course, I went straight away.
first private as i couldnt find NHS. Dentist wanted to drill with no pain management at all. Very expensive too.
Next day I managed to get to NHS dentist.
Dentist said its a non-reactive cavity , advised to wait. We will be back in May. Might post an udpate. i have purchased Bliss energetics tooth putty and toothpaste with hydroxyapatite. I took about two weeks to arrive. I alternate it with normal fluoride toothpaste. We have completly cut down on snacks. Made big changes after reflecting on everything. Im including photo of cavity as on 20th of March. Putty arrived on 3rd so Ive been using it on his tooth for over 3 weeks.

@Sylviaplathforeverplease use the fluoride toothpaste twice a day and don’t alternate. That tooth (and the others) needs all the fluoride it can get within recommendations for a 3 year old. I’m a dentist and agree with Lollygaggle that the tooth putty won’t do anything. The photos are very dodgy and there’s a health warning on the website it contains carcinogens and lead. Is it even recommended for young children?

@EricInk
thanks for reply. You mean this company? https://blissenergetics.com/collections/all-products ???
I just see natural ingredients. And it states it’s safe for kids. Lead ? Am I missing something ?
are you against hydroxyapatite as a dentist ? It’s so popular now and I thought it would be a great addition to fluoride.
also I know my photos are not great but the cavity seems to be lighter and that’s why I will keep taking photos and definitely post after our next appointment in May.
thanks

@EricInk sorry now I know what you mean but I have checked their “product purity data” page . I’m including screenshot.
I feel like even in your theory that it doesn’t do anything good , it won’t harm alongside conventional brushing and mindful diet

I sincerely hope the cavity isn't lighter, that is a sign of active decay , inert decay is dark brown or black.

This tooth is cavitated, it has a hole. No matter what your do that is not going to "heal". From the photo it needs filling becaise the next stage is it gets painful and the nerve dies off.

Most important thing is to make sure anyone hing eaten or drunk between meals is sugar/starch free. Second is fluoride toothpaste twice a day. Hydroxyapatite is fine but for children with high decay rates I prefer fluoride.

There is no magic putty or toothpaste that will stop completely the damage caused by inappropriate diet choices or repair once there is a hole.

Yes hydroxyapatite is fine
and shows promise, but it’s an emerging product and there isn’t really any solid evidence base for it yet. I was just pointing out that if you have an issue with small amounts of fluoride that have decades long data of proven benefit aren’t you concerned about small amounts of lead? Also does the putty have any substantively? By that I mean does it stick onto the tooth long enough to have an effect? The magic of fluoride is that hydroxyapatite leaches out of enamel under lower pHs in the mouth and if fluoride is available it is taken up and becomes fluorapatite which is stronger and more decay resistant. Therefore Fl > HA. At £30 for a pot I’d put that towards dental treatment

as your son is 3 he is judged to be ‘precooperative’ which is why the latest dentist hasn’t done anything yet and is reviewing in 3 months. The cavity will be much bigger then the black spot you can see. In that photo a large white frosty appearance around it is visible which indicates rapidly progressing decay. At his age this is likely to get to the pulp soon and cause pain, in which case he’s going to need it pulled under general anaesthetic along with any other teeth showing minor signs of decay. Appropriate fluoride application is the only hope here, it won’t heal it but may slow progression enough to allow filling/intervention when he’s bigger. Ie maybe a gentle filling at 5 and then he might be able to cope with an extraction under local anaesthetic at 8/9. Being pragmatic I don’t think that tooth is going to last pain free until exfoliation age at 12/13. Twice daily fluoride toothpaste is vital- along with regular applications of varnish at the dentist, not once daily and that paste

Also silver diamine fluoride application is a new technique which is great for kids, it’s like a fluoride bomb inside the tooth and is capable to some degree of hardening decay and stopping sensitivity. There are limits to what it can achieve though

I’m afraid I judge parents who continue to use fluoride free toothpastes in the face of evidence that it is safe and effective.
Please make sure you are using 1450ppm fluoride toothpaste twice a day as per the guidelines in the Delivering better oral health toolkit.
If your child can tolerate dental treatment I would look at a Hall Crown, but if not he may be facing GA extraction.
www.cuh.nhs.uk/patient-information/stainless-steel-crowns-hall-technique-a-parents-guide/