Measles national incident - thoughts?

[Eleano]

In light of measles (a life threatening disease) now spreading across the Midlands thanks to vaccine sceptic parents not vaccinating their children, what do you think should be done to stop this epidemic of vaccine skepticism?

Clearly the government wants to stay on the fence in case of losing more voters but if you were policy makers, any ideas on what you would do?

Let's not overlook the fact that whooping cough is also having its biggest wave this year.

One possibility? No child old enough to be vaccinated to be allowed in school, or formal childcare, without measles immunisation. Could at least really slow down spread.

It’s not just parents not vaccinating, it’s also children coming from countries where they don’t offer MMR. Anyone coming here to live needs to be strongly encouraged to take it up too.
The government needs to run advertising campaigns on TV and SM, like the ones we had years ago, and it needs to be easier to get an appointment.

They do this in the states and in terms of parental attitudes, I believe it's counter-productive. (Among other things you end up with anti-vax home education groups, all confirming each other's biases!)

Frankly, I think the lowered vaccination rates are at least partly down to the coercive way that the covid vaccine was pushed, and yet now has been more or less dropped for most people.

When I say the states, I should clarify; in some states. It's not official overall US policy.

Is it vaccine skepticism? Where's the stats?

I like the Australian approach, where you cannot claim certain family benefits unless your DC is fully vaccinated on time, has a medical exemption to a jab, or (for new arrivals to the country) is following an approved catch-up plan.

DC have the right to an education, so I wouldn't look to limit school entry no matter how wrong-headed the parents.

From what I understand there are a few issues that contribute to the lower uptake in mmr vaccinations in the U.K.

• anti-vax in general
• MMR contains pork products so some people cannot have due to religion
• lack of education/knowledge of vax schedule/availability for those new in to the country or not registered with a GP.

If the resources were available then ideally it would be an education piece, making contact with those parents who are choosing not to vaccinate to understand reticence and address concerns. Making people aware there is an alternative with no pork products. Engaging community groups to highlight what services are available and the risks of measles.

Do you think this might also be due to the pandemic, where normal health care was very restricted and hard to attain in many cases and also a lot of people became vaccine weary? I think many children might have missed out on their early jabs and still not have caught up perhaps?

There is an MMR without gelatine, so that’s not a reason to not vaccinate.

Surely enforcing vaccination to access education is counterproductive?

All it will do will confirm to radicalised anti vaxxers that the government wants to control them and their children will be taken out of school.

As it is the current cohort of anti vaxxers (the anti covid, pro trump, pro Putin lot) will not believe anything they’re told about measles in terms of outbreak numbers and consequences, or how important vaccination is.

It’s a sign of the times. Individualism is in. Protect your own to protect others is out. Our esteemed “leaders” are teaching by example.

I agree with the pp above who mentioned ad campaigns.

My dc have had all the standard jabs by default, including a couple of extra ones due to heightened risk eg an extra measles booster offered in my area. However I must say I don't particularly know much about each of the diseases - I know this is thanks to vaccination.

For example, I don't know anyone personally who's had measles. I've no idea what it's like as a disease. I bet many other mums don't either.

An ad campaign showing photos of bad measles cases and explaining long term harms of measles would help.

I did know a girl at school who got mumps and that did seem dreadful.

(I should say my dc have had all their jabs so far - dc2 still a newborn but has had the TB jab!)

I wondered about something that is a compromise between mandating jabs and no consequences at all.

So e.g. make it so that if you want a "conscientious objector" certificate to still allow your children to attend school, you have to attend an equivalent number of appointments to the minimum needed to get children jabbed by school age. They don't have to have a vaccine while there but then it wouldn't just be getting skipped out of apathy?

I dunno, maybe it would be too resource intensive. But it would give opportunities for education as well. We've definitely got to do something!

Sadly I expect some ardent parents who don't vaccinate their children won't be swayed until the inevitable deaths are reported from a preventable disease. I do also agree that there should be more support and education for those coming from countries where MMR isn't standard; it's awful that a disease we had all but eradicated is rearing its head again and the lifelong effects and deaths this will cause for some children, and part of it is certainly parents who have been on social media and believed some random all vaccines are bad rather than actual science. We have been blessed in recent decades to not have encountered how awful measles can be, I feel for children who medically cannot have the vaccine who have always been protected by herd immunity but now will not be.

I’d like to see the actual stats because what we are seeing it is not ‘vaccine refusal’ from crazy Mother Earth types in the Midlands, but large numbers of children of immigrants who either didn’t have the vaccine available in their country at the usual age or whose parents have such a poor grasp of English that they don’t even know it’s an option.

This was the problem we had. I was pregnant during the first COVID vaccine roll out and couldn't get the whooping cough jab. Rang GP multiple times and each time they said sorry we're only doing COVID jabs so I couldn't get it. Then with a newborn, I struggled to get the 6 week check up booked, and each of his routine jabs at 8, 12 and 16 weeks were delayed as I just couldn't get appointments despite ringing and ringing.

If they want children vaccinated at least make it easy to book an appointment. I could have just given up and not got him vaccinated and no one would have cared. Maybe they should visit schools and offer to vaccinate all children unless the parents opt out, then the parents have to make a conscious decision not to vaccinate rather than just forgetting to do it.

According to this article on the BBC availability and access to services is the common trend rather than immigrants

Get measles vaccine to avoid rapid spread, says UK health boss www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68028530

I'd like to see the stats. If most of those with measles are secondary age than the lack of vaccine doesn't make sense as an explanation. Unfortunately the government has lost the trust of many people so I won't take their word for it. My children have had all their normal jabs but not the flu jab or covid jabs. It made no sense to me to vaccinate healthy children against a virus which mutates. Yes I'm not a doctor - but the history of medicine is full of blunders and scandals. The covid vaccine being the most egregious example.

I think people don't fear these diseases enough because they didn't grow up with them and didn't see the devastating effects. I don't know what the answer is though, as waiting for lots of kids to get sick enough to prove it to the adults seems cruel.

They probably need to do what they did in 1994. (The government were concerned about an epidemic and did a UK wide vaccination campaign and offered all 5-16 year olds a vaccine in school. (It was just a MR as they didn’t have enough of the MMR at that point - I remember having mine done despite the fact I was up to date - Mum didn’t take any risks with measles as she almost died from it.)

You could make it clear that there is an option that doesn’t contain pork derivatives, translations of the leaflets to go home. Offer a session for preschoolers/siblings at the primary school plus any adults who missed out.

On the idea of compulsory vaccination, I wouldn't impose it for schooling, it's too important, but I'd impose it for all commercial leisure activities - sports & leisure classes, cubs, brownies, holiday & theme parks, on commercial flights.

The kind of people who can't be bothered to vaccinate their children often aren't bothered about them going to school or home educating either, but would howl in protest at not being able to go to CentreParcs or fly anywhere.

I doubt that it is because parents can’t be bothered, and if that is the case then threats and punishment are unlikely to reach them.

I always feel a bit uncomfortable reading these threads because I do know someone whose child was vaccine damaged. I accept it is very rare and I accept that on balance there is more danger from diseases. But in my experience, if fear is the motivator for people not getting vaccines, effectively bullying them to have it will just confirm these fears and make them dig their heels in even more.

Honestly (except where there is a medical exemption certificate) I would just turn around and make it the law that a child HAS to be vaccinated. I think parents get far too much "choice" when they don't actually know the first thing about it and shouldn't be able to refuse something the professionals (doctors) agree is the best thing for their child. How an unqualified person should be allowed to make this decision on behalf of a child whos not old enough to understand but could still die or be permanently brain damaged etc by these illnesses, i do not know. Should be classed as child neglect if not done imo.

Yes I also believe a parent shouldn't be allowed to refuse any other medical treatment that a doctor (or more than one) outright/strongly recommends for a child eg. blood transfusions etc and I don't believe any parental consent should be needed especially not in an emergency.

It can explain it though in part at least. Measles immunity from the 2 doses of childhood MMR vaccine is lifelong (more questionable regarding mumps & rubella but this is concerning measles). The effects of AW in 1998 lingers on and would have no doubt affected uptake when they were babies if they're now secondary age; despite the evidence and rebuttals since it still has an impact on parents now- obviously the fallout from covid vaccines is more recent but its silly to underestimate the effect he had and still has regarding MMR. There are no doubt other factors at play also as has been said in this thread.

I had measles as a child in England, aged about 8, and it was a big deal with my mother telling me later just how ill I had been. I do remember a darkened room, my mother and grandmother tag team nursing me, with cooling bed baths to keep my temperature down and the GP and district nurse making frequent visits.

I also had mumps and have a very clear memory of waking up and wondering why my neck was so huge on one side.