Modern fairytale for toddlers

[surreygirl1987]

I have a 1 year old and a 3 year old. My 3 year old has recently really got into fairytale and asks for them all the time. However, despite being somewhat modernised, they're still the same stories with traditional gender stereotypes that I was fed as a child. Women's sole role is to marry a handsome prince etc. I really hate the princess and the frog, and the princess and the pea and I hate that I'm giving my two little boys these messages. Does anyone know of a fairytale collection (like the usborne fairytale books) that are the right level for a 3 year old to enjoy, but which aren't problematic in terms of gender portrayal? Many thanks, Charlotte

@drywhitefruitycidergin I understand your thinking on the messaging of fairytales but a few old stories aren't going to turn your boys into misogynists No I agree with you on that... but in combination with 100s of other things like this in day to day life, I do strongly feel that this is how we are reinforcing gender roles. Part of how children's views of the world are constructed are by books they read.
This is probably a discussion for another thread, but things like the disparity between girls' and boys' clothing (as labelled by shops) and the way toys are marketed (dolls for girls, cars for boys) etc all play a part. When my eldest was around 10 months old we went to a baby music class and the babies all had to choose a toy from the bag. My son pulled out a pink doll. The music teacher actually said to him 'oh do you want to put that back and choose a different toy?' (Not that he understood what she was saying). I was so disappointed with this attitude. Small things we say and do work together to have a long lasting influence upon how children view gender. There's loads of research on this. And then people try to argue that it's natural that boys prefer trucks and dragons and girls prefer pink sparkly unicorns, rather than it being part of a social construct. There's a lot they will get exposed to in day to day life that I can't control- but what they read at home is something I CAN control - which is why I want to fill their bookcases with books that I think teaches good rather than damaging lessons!

Anyway, all I wanted was some suggestions on less problematic fairy tales 😁 thanks everyone.

Not really proper fairy tales but I like reading Julia Donaldson: she has witches, dragons, princesses, .......

@surreygirl1987

There is literally nothing bizarre or far fetched about showing kids old fairytales that have been read and loved for a very long time. What is bizarre and far fetched is that you somehow think whatever ideologically driven take you want of them would be more worthwhile or popular.

I mean who would have known that some feminists in 2021 knew better than every one before them and were totally right to re-write Hans Christian Andersen.

It seems to me that op (and correct me if I'm wrong @surreygirl1987 ) has a ds (and could easily be a dd) who is enjoying traditional fairytales and in particular princess ones. @surreygirl1987 asked for any alternatives that offered a less passive role for the princess.
Noone said they thought they were better than traditional fairytales. It's always good to broaden children's reading material and to look at stories differently.
In primary school children are often asked to rewrite a story - is this this teacher saying an 8yr old can improve on the original? Or just expanding childrens views and helping them use their imagination?

'Totally right to rewrite Hans Christian Andersen'. The Little Mermaid is one of his. Do you seriously see nothing problematic about a girl deciding to literally give up her voice to win over a man?! 🤦‍♀️

Do you even know much about fairytale origins by the way? The Brothers Grimm and Charles Perrault for instance? Fairy tales HAVE been rewritten many times already. The fairytales that you probably know are likely not to be 'original' or early versions anyway. In early versions of Sleeping Beauty for instance, if I recall correctly she was raped while asleep, gave birth to twins while asleep, and one of them bit her nippe and woke her up. That was rewritten to suit the audience of the time (understandably)! There is no one 'fixed' version of fairytales. If you are interested to learn more, I can direct you to loads of interesting literature and research on the topic. But I was literally just posting to get people's ideas of alternative and less problematic versions.. 🙈

In the original little mermaid, the prince chooses the other girl and the little mermaid is so sad and becomes sea foam

In Cinderella, the ugly sisters chop off their toes to get a man.

Pinocchio kills Jiminey Cricket, has his feet burned off and gets hanged.

Yeah, they've been rewritten a bit.

@surreygirl1987

Actually I’m well aware of the origins and changes to fairytales over the years, it’s an interest of mine. But it’s quite typical of someone ideologically driven to assume superior knowledge to whoever they disagree with, so I’m not surprised you so “kindly” offered to re educate me.

However despite being cleaned up some and made more kid friendly in some instances, the basic point of most of the stories remains the same. If however you really need the basic stories of princess fairytales changed to the point they can be considered feminist and “less problematic” - especially in the case of things like the Princess and the frog which is in a way a gender swap on sleeping Beauty and isn’t really “problematic” in it’s telling at all - to the point they are unrecognisable you might as well just choose newly written stories which are more likely to conform to you point of view.

I say that the Princess and the Frog isn’t “problematic” but if of course you consider a princess and prince getting together problematic and would rather she ditched him to teach a course in feminist studies or something, I can see how you would find it so. That may be more of the kind of thing your looking for?

Im just saying, if you want stories like that originals will serve you better than bastardised ideological versions of the old stories.

You knock Hans Christian Andersen but those stories are still being told to the point you want to change them to fit your beliefs. Clearly they’ve got something over the modern ideological feminist kids stories or you’d just read you son them.

Ella's Big Chance

www.amazon.co.uk/Ellas-Big-Chance-Shirley-Hughes/dp/0099433095?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

A reworking of Cinderella in which (spoiler) she jilts the prince and runs off to set up a business with Buttons

Also you might like Three Little Wolves and the Big Bad Pig

www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Little-Wolves-Big-Bad/dp/1405209453?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

to the point they are unrecognisable you might as well just choose newly written stories which are more likely to conform to you point of view.

Er... That's why some of us suggested zog ... Yet you've still got a problem with those too.

What are you so upset about? The idea that little boys and girls might be attracted to stories that don't fit reductive gender stereotypes? The idea that a girl could teach a boy a skill? (like being a doctor) i don't think you're actually familiar with the book at all so you've just dismissed it out of hand because... You're upset that some people might not want to give children traditional fairy tales as their only source of fiction? I mean I'm really struggling to get what your point is here.

Yes, I'm struggling to understand why you're so upset about this too, and what your point is 🤷‍♀️ Your attitude is bizarre - I can't understand why someone would refuse to acknowledge that it's acceptable for someone to not want her children to not be fed a diet of, for instance, 'happily ever after' = marriage to a handsome prince. Also I don't ' knock HCA' - I have an issue with conveying the messages in the story TLM to my sons... ie that it's a good thing for a young girl to give up her voice and family and basically her identity for a man (who she doesn't even know) because she is attracted to him - and that somehow her father is the bad guy for being 'strict' with her! (And yes, to another poster, she does become foam on the sea. Later versions, if I remember rightly, made her a 'daughter of the air' as a kinder alternative for 'doing a good deed' (not killing the Prince in order to survive herself).) If fairytales are genuinely an interest of yours, I would have thought you would be well up on this debate, and be less shocked at my views - there is endless literature on this topic and the problems of traditional versions of fairytales being read to young children are well documented 🤦‍♀️

But anyway, I have had lots of useful help, for which I am grateful. Zog sounds great and I have already looked that up so thank you!

I tend to speak my own footnotes for anything I don't agree with as I go along. I don't have any up to date fairytale, but make sure I mention that breaking in, destroying someone's possessions and eating their food is wrong. Or that yes, cannibalism is a problem, but if you go around eating people's houses you should expect consequences. Especially when the house belongs to a lonely old lady in the woods that could probably do with some company and help about the house instead of outright vandalism.

On a separate note, Zog and the flying doctors annoys me. Pearl teaches Gadabout how to be a doctor and is then relegated to vaccinations while he performs surgery. My boys love it though.

On a separate note, Zog and the flying doctors annoys me. Pearl teaches Gadabout how to be a doctor and is then relegated to vaccinations while he performs surgery. My boys love it though. Really? That's interesting! Thanks for the heads up!

And yes, totally agree about the 'footnotes' - have been trying to do this myself!

www.cartoonkate.co.uk/dont-call-me-princess-page/

@CelticPromise oh THANKYOU for sharing this!!

It's a favourite with my daughter, and I really like the pics.

You mean the “problems” of reading traditional fairytales are well documented by people with the same ideological beliefs as you - who naturally see problems with anything that doesn’t conform to their ideology. And the “literature” is written by the same. But that’s to be expected and of course I’m aware of it. I find it foolish and you very condescending. But that too is to be expected from someone so convinced their ideology needs to be grafted onto all kids stories.

Just got this post on my Pinterest and thought of you

I find it foolish. Okay, that's your view. Clearly you are in the minority on this thread, and I have no idea why you're so angry. It's not MY view though, and, as I've said a few times, I am just on here asking for advice on alternatives for the fairy tales that I find deeply problematic in terms of the portrayal of gender roles... and many people have been very helpful in response, for which I am grateful. You are allowed to 'find it foolish' if you want - you clearly don't get it but that's not my problem 🤷‍♀️ Take care!

@grey12 oh thanks for the thought! Will have a look!

I’m not angry simply giving my opinion, being in the minority (on this thread) is neither her nor there, I would expect it given what was asked.
I will accept that you “find (classic) fairy tales problematic” though.

And for the record I have no problem with empowering stories for girls where they are heroes (or whatever) etc. But these are all likely to be modern stories. So for me I would prefer to read those modern stories and a somewhat faithful (at least to the point it’s recognisable) version of the old fairytales and mix them up. A child can hear that a princess married a prince from time to time, or a story with gender roles, there’s nothing wrong with that, so long as they hear other stories with other options for girls as well. Basically have empowering girls characters in some stories, but keep Rapunzel letting down her hair for the prince, instead of inventing a hang glider and sailing away cos she don’t need no prince or whatever you are suggesting.

After all what if you read your son nothing but feminist fairy tales (yuck) and he still grows up to choose to live out traditional gender roles with his own Princess? Would that really be so very wrong?

Okay, @taracrazytiara no worries 🤦‍♀️😂

It's mad how much some women are wedded to gender stereotypes.