My daughter (14) wants to study English at university

[cymruoddicatref]

My lovely daughter wants to study English at university - her ambition is to be a screen writer. She has always been a voracious reader, and writes stories and poetry in her spare time. But nothing she does in relation to her writing comes with any sort of "external accreditation" - it is all done purely for her own personal pleasure - and although it feels thoroughly ghastly and counter-intuitive, I have suggested to her that given the competition for places, she needs to begin thinking about looking for writing opportunities that will "show" how interested she is - the tyranny of the personal statement etc. I wonder if anybody (especially university teachers) has any ideas as to what makes for an attractive candidate to study English.

cymru - the film is excellent.

I have an English degree, and it was a shit decision tbh. You need something more vocational these days,. something more media-centric. Plenty of those sorts of courses now.

studying English does not a screenwriter make

writing every single day of her life will make a writer

you read English at Uni because you love the written word and dissecting it - has she done that kind of English yet? The whole "and what do we think he meant by that" stuff?

I wouldn't let a 14 year old thoughts of what they want to do at uni be the be-all and end-all - I'd also in this day and age think hard about whether it is worthwhile spending the amount of money needed to do a non-vocational degree purely because you fancy it

what do English graduates become nowadays?

The press release link to Chris Evans' comp doesn't work, but details are here: 500 words

I'm going to suggest my children have a go.

I'm an English graduate, activate, and I make my living as an editor.

OP, I went to university in the mid-90s so this is possibly out of date, but the fact I did S-level counted in my favour, according to my tutor. Not even sure if they still exist though.

I second everyone else though, she should continue to read voraciously.

I believe that the world has changed much since the 90s in terms of the job market once you graduate

not sure an undergraduate means much any more seeing that 50% of kids are supposed to get one - whereas in the 90s it would have been a differentiator

also it would have to be from a good uni to open any doors

I know people who did this as a joint honours degree with either English Language or Literature. It is a very academic course and not at all like 'media studies' at an ex-poly. It might be aggod way to combine some study of film with a 'proper' degree in English.

Read lots. Though tackling the drier parts of literary criticism can suck all the fun out of reading.

I personally wouldn't encourage anyone to do an English Lit degree unless at a top tier university.

If she wants to write, then she needs to write every day -- it's like art or music. And she needs to enter competitions, join a group, even an online community (but watch for copyright issues, and perverts since she's young). A theatre group would be a fantastic way to develop writing skills. Not necessarily to write, but to act.

How about starting a blog with Wordpress or Blogger? ...or a lot of teenagers are producing a lot of good fiction at Wattpad.com.

With Wattpad, she could not only collect fans but they would comment and the discussions could help improve writing as well as providing a showcase.

Both are free...

Ceri

She does not need to prove her writing ability in extra curricular stuff to get onto a University English Degree course. As has been pointed out, a classic English degree is more about reading literature (be that ancient, contemporary, British, American etc) and gaining a greater understanding of it - what makes it successful - what are the writers trying to get at and are they successful. What can we learn about the culture and the politics of a society from the literature they produce(d).

Creative writing is something much different, and she may be lucky enough to get on a course that does this as a module. Otherwise, it will be something she works on in her own time, or does an MA in, or a course after she graduates (such as at the London College of Printing).

Getting on an English degree course will be mainly down the the A level results she gets. You could start looking at which Uni's have a strong reputation in this field. Apart from the obvious (oxbridge), places Like Leeds, Durham etc.

The way she will learn to hone her craft as a screenwriter is by reading, reading, reading lots of screenplays. These are available to download off the internet. Sometimes for free, sometimes for a small charge. She should read the good and the bad, and particulary screenplays of films or TV shows she deems to be successful.

Writing for film and tv is an industry many aspire to, but few take the craft seriously enough to really succeed. It's fantastic your daughter has identified a career goal so early, and I would encourage it if you think she has talent because the industry is constantly in need of new voices and fresh perspectives on life, the universe and, you know, everything.

This thread really does show what is great about mumsnet. I would never have found even half of these sources without you all - thank you! Love the look of wattpad - have just had a quick browse - and thank you ramona for your inspiring words of encouragement - I may even show them to my daughter - who doesn't know I secretly post on here! It is probably regarded as a bit nerdy amongst cool 14 year olds.

I agree with the consensus of the posters here.

It's fantastic that your DD loves to write and you should definitely encourage that. If nothing else it will give her pleasure and writing is a craft - you need to practice to get good at it.

Actually, if she ends up studying English at a good university there are more tracks through the degree in terms of focus and approach than you might think. She'll need to be able to think critically but a serious interest in literature and the ability to engage with different 'texts' is the first requirement. The ability to write well helps a great deal.

I studied English Language & Lit at Oxford for a while and the best advice I had from a tutor when I enquired what made a good essay was "make it so I can read it and make it interesting".

If DD wants to do creative writing as part of an English degree there are some very good combined programmes at some very good universities. Also, she can pursue her interest privately and through Clubs and Societies, etc.

Good courses at good uni's are massively oversubscribed by candidates who meet the academic entrance requirements. They choose those with enthusiasm and something interesting to offer.

Yes Andre, but unless Oxbridge has changed in the last few years, its Department of English doesn't give much credence to creative writing when selecting undergraduates so I don't think there's much point in devoting precious words to it in the personal statement, bearing in mind the limited word count. As well as being predicted the required grades, winning several prestigeous national writng competitions, and being published by two mainstream publishers my ds2 didn't even get an interview.

Cymru - you are welcome to PM me if you want to talk in more detail

Do not neglect poetry. 14 is a little bit young to start seriously but a proper, thoroughgoing understanding of verse, how it works and what makes it good will set her apart if she wants to apply for a traditional English Lit course at a good university.

It will also develop her writer's ear enormously, whether or not she ever pens a line of verse in her life. A mastery of the technical aspects of poetry makes any writing better IMO.

Stephen Fry's The Ode Less Travelled contains a fair amount of ripe language and adult ideas, but is a very very good introduction to verse forms of all kinds. And just read read read - many public libraries still have poetry selections. Get an anthology and see what she likes, then follow it up.

It may also help her to be involved in acting as well to understand the craft from the other side.

I think your dd might want to be thinking along two parallel tracks at the same time:

a) what is going to get me into university?

answer: A's in good solid GCSEs and A-levels, such as English Literature, History, MFL (English Lit definitely favoured over English Language)

b) what is going to help me develop in the field I dream of

answer: reading and writing, reading and writing

And I certainly wouldn't knock a 14yos dream. Dh and I both went for the fulfilling of our teenage dreams, and though it hasn't made us rich, and didn't provide us with instant financial security in our young days, I think we can both say that we have found our lives very worthwhile- not a bad thing either.

May seem odd, but if she taking a foreign language? I would recommend French or Latin.

Google 'writing competitions'. There are absolutely loads of them. I'm a teacher and often use them to inspire pupils to write (feels like there's more of a 'point' if it's for an actual competition)

Also get in touch with local newspapers to see if she could do some unpaid work experience over the school holidays. Once she's got her foot in the door they may also welcome reviews from her (e.g. reviews of the books she's reading). Any of her work that she gets published she can then put into a portfolio (this is how I got my uni place!!!)

If she's very bright and money isn't an issue several distance learning universities (e.g. open university) have short English/creative writing modules.

In terms of getting into uni, one of the most important things is to get all the spelling and punctuation right in the personal statement, but I'm sure her sixth form will drill her on this in a few years time!!!

magazine www.mslexia.co.uk runs a book review by a teenage girl (it's a magazine for women writers) each issue. She could contribute to that.

But I agree that the main thing must be that she is a keen reader and can convey this interest clearly through her writing when she fills in her UCAS form. They will be looking for people who read books beyond the quite formulaic style of A-level (ie people who can come up with their own ideas about books), but I'm sure your daughter will have this anyway.

Sorry, it's been a while since I posted here!

I meant www.mslexia.co.uk

Thanks for this great link to mslexia. I had a look and nosing around in the resources I came upon this super resource for childrens poetry

www.childrenspoetrybookshelf.co.uk/Templates/for_grown_ups.asp

One more interesting link I have found to share - the TS Eliot annual poetry shadowing scheme.

Can't work out how to attach the link with this computer but if your child is interested, you can find it using google.

A understanding of basic English literacy, "pip goes to the beach" and "Pip has a accident at the beach" and finally " Pip claims PIP!"