Advice / Opinions please? (Childminder issue)

[ToddlerYears]

DD (almost 3) gets picked up from nursery by childminder who tells me that she always falls asleep on way home and she finds it impossible to wake her up, so let's her sleep for 10 minutes or so.
Problem is, when DD gets home, she then can't settle down to sleep until late (it was 11pm last night!)
I've asked childminder not to let DD sleep and to wake her up, but she says it's impossible to wake her.
I pick up DD one day a week from nursery (same times) and DD NEVER falls asleep on way home. And, when she falls asleep on other days, I don;t have a problem waking her.
Nursery say that she never seems tired at the end of the nursery day (3.30pm)

I don't know what to make of it all, and would like to put the case of not letting DD sleep more firmly with childminder, but don't know how. Childminder is very nice but does let the children watch a lot of telly (not sure if this has an impact?)

Any thoughts?

gosh, I have looked after a few children now who apparently never fall asleep with the parent but they always do with me. Perhaps I just bore them! lol

Seriously though, its a bit of a vicious circle, your child has a sleep in the afternoon, won't go to sleep at night and therefore is tired the next day, resulting in them falling asleep on the way home again..... cycle.

According to Ofsted/wellbing guidelines we are supposed to allow a child to sleep if they need it. We are not allowed to deprive a child of sleep - even with parents request as it could be considered abuse (and sleep deprivation is a form of torture).
However, there has to be a compromise.

How long is your child sleeping for? If it really is only for 10 minutes then it should not be affecting her so badly later on in the evening. I presume your child is an afternoon session child and I have found children who are afternoon session children do get more sleepy as they are 'missing' that vital rest/wind down period we all seem to get just after lunch.

Its a hard one to call on this one, your CM'er is not doing this on purpose to make your life harder but she is looking out for the childs welfare first and foremost - which is our primary concern.

My daughter (16 months) almost always has a late afternoon nap when she spends the day with her Dad, and basically never when she spends the day with me. Partly that's because we have different rhythms, but part of it just seems to be - well, I don't know, but she's in general more independent and less worshipping around him and more needy around me, so I suppose it's related to that? He's better at benign neglect, so she has learned to play more independently with him but is clingy with me. I suspect the sleeping has something to do with that - oh, it's Dad, might as well have a nap.

Anyway, I think it's not your CM's fault, it's perfectly possible that your daughter is just reacting differently to different people.

agree that children often sleep better for carers than parents, my 4yr still has the occassional sleep with me, and always slept till 3.5yrs, yet with mum refused to sleep from 2 3/4yrs (she was soooooooooooooo that i got him to sleep)

again 10mins shouldnt make a difference but if you really dont want your dc to sleep then cm should respect that (just as i respect that if 4yr sleeps more than hr, he may not be in bed at 7pm) so if he does sleep i always wake up

yes children are grumpy when they wake up but a good cm should be ablw to cope with that

how long is car journey from nursery to cm house?

is it much further than nursery to your house?

maybe cm can do singing/snack in car and then have 15mins tv time when home to let your dc chill out after nursery

Do you think that she may be more difficult going to bed on the evenings that she has been to the cm's as a reaction to being away from you, rather than the fact that she has had a 10 min nap?

My ds went to a cm mornings only 3 days a week. Home days he would have an afternoon nap no problem and on the days that he had been to the cm he was always reluctant to sleep - almost like an 'I haven't seen you all morning Mummy, so I want to be with you now and not in bed.'

yy pippin is right

children have a right to rest and sleep, and balancing this against the parents wishes can be tricky

Can nursery build a nap into dd's day ?

Thank you for all the responses.
It's good to know that others have been there with this issue too.
I do think that childminder is more soft with DD than me (I'm quite brutal with waking her up )
And I do think that DD may have difficulty winding down when she comes home from childminders ...

However, childminder lives literally opposite me, so distance back from nursery is the same (5 minute walk max.). So, still baffled by why she sleeps in buggy with childminder but never with me

Also, nursery have tried getting DD to nap after lunch, but she's just not tired then

Hi ToddlerYears,

Have you tried getting CM to walk your child home rather than put her in the buggy? That way she won't have the opportunity to fall asleep. If your DD has no health reason to be in the buggy then I can't see why she can't walk home?

I look after a 4yr old girl and sometimes after a busy weekend and a morning at pre-school she will be tired but she will only fall asleep if she's given long enough alone (if I have lunch or something to make for the smaller ones), so I just get her to help me, she loves making food for the little ones and we have a lovely chat while she does it, and best of all, she can't fall asleep!

as nursery is so close agree make child walk, may annoy cm, so give her the choice, car/buggy and no sleep or walk

tbh unless got other school pick ups if only 5mins walk then you/cm and child can walk it now that nice weather is coming

ah yy walk not buggy

Excellent idea about the walking!

I worked for a parent who wanted their 18 month old not to nap as they could not put her to bed at night until after 10pm.

I then had the child for two weeks sole charge - she was in bed by 7pm slept until after 7am and had two hours nap in avo.

It worked out that if I told mother she had napped in day the parents couldn't get her to sleep, but if I said she didn't nap they had no problem getting her to sleep. So for the it was the expectation of her not sleeping at night if she'd had sleep in day.

Maybe this could be happening with you. If you know she's had a sleep you think she's not going to go to bed at night therefor not being as forth right at getting her into bed in comparison to the days when she hasn't napped.

Get the CM to walk your child home...

very true nannynz

i have told little white lies at times to ex employers, saying didnt have sleep when they did, and as you wrote if i said didnt have a sleep then went to bed easily, if i said had napped then next day the mum would say, xxx was up till 11pm etc

child napped every day - was i wrong to tell lies? i dont think so,child was happy as slept during the day, parents happy as slept at night

again i pp for 2weeks when dc was at school think 5/6yrs and child slept 7-7 (tho woke up at 5am and wanted to watch tv) and first 3 days i said go back to sleep till clock said 7, 4th day onwards i woke the child after 7am

teachers remarked how much more cheerful&attentive my charge was - this was because was having 3hrs sleep extra a night

as soon as parents back, then charge went to bed at 8pm onwards and up at 5am to watch tv, i told mb to tell dc to go back to bed and ban tv before breakie, but she didnt as 5yr screamed so i told her not to moan to me she was tired and personally i would ban tv till 8am when i arrived if not ready for school, ie dressed&breakfasted

sorry slight woffee/hijack

toddler years, maybe your child is playing you up as hasnt seen you all day, or just knows she can iyswim

try walking for a week and see what happens

also ALL day at nursery (9-3ish) is tiring and your dd is still 2, though nearly 3

my 4yr is shattered after being at nursery all day and needs either a catnap or chill out time infront of tv for 10mins

I have a 22 month old who I have shortened her nap to 30 mins as Mum was having problems getting her to sleep at night. She falls asleep in the highchair very often but rarely sleeps in the day when at home. When I wake her up she cries every time and although I can deal with it I hate to do it and feel terrible everytime. Since she's moved to a bed even the 30min nap is apparently causing a problem but Mum has agreed for me to keep it as she will fall asleep on the way home and that will be later and therefore more detrimental to bedtime! I have seen many children behave differently with me than at home with the amount they sleep, what they'll eat etc so I can easily believe that your daughter is different with her childminder.

It can be difficult to know if someone is doing something because it suits them, I do know childminders who manipulate childrens sleep patterns to suit them, e.g. so all children sleep at the same time but if you trust her then hopefully you trust that she would not doing that.

As it's only 5mins I agree that a 3 year old should have no problems walking it but then it may not fit with other pick ups. It's very hard for childminders at times as you try to meet the needs of the parents but can only judge by how the children are while in your care and need to meet their needs as well.

Good luck

oooh nannynz..... been there done that.

I used to care for a child who apparently when she had a nap at mine, she would NEVER go to bed/sleep at home....apparently.

I tried the not allowing her to have a nap but to be honest she was a (and I am putting this politely) very challenging child and she became beyond horrendous by 4pm if she didn't have a nap.

So, rightly or wrongly I omitted to tell the parents that this child was having a sleep and strangely enough I never got anymore comments/demands about her not being tired enough to go to bed, (just about her 'acting up' behaviour towards mum and dad which they were well aware of (sorry I am digressing a little - this child and family are a whole saga in itself)) in actual fact I got feedback saying how much better she was sleeping!!! go figure!!!lol

It is not something that I do - fib or omit information to parents and I was not proud of that situation. its hard balancing the parents wishes with the childs needs.

I'd wonder if she wasn't sleeping for long enough - 10 minutes is a bit pointless, as takes the edge off but wouldn't rest her properly.

If she is tired then she should be allowed to nap, but for a proper length of time - minimum of 30 mins I'd say, then she'd have more energy to wear herself out before bedtime!

Hmmm, well childminder said DD didn't nao today ... but at 9.30pm, she's still awake
I'm just completely stumped!

oh no ! perhaps you need to rethink bedtime strategies?

when you say she's awake what is she doing? Lying in her cot/bed chatting away?

Maybe your dc is over tired and can't relax/settle herself

what's your bedtime routiine?

I'm a beleiver that sleep breeds sleep and those children who sleep a bit during the day sleep better at night

and often over tired children can't sleep till late then next day they are tired and same thing happens

it's a vicious circle

Agree with blondes I think a well rested child is able to cope with bedtime routine and settling down to sleep better than one that isover tired and unco-operative.

Oviously falling asleep later in the day can affect bedtimes but if she is falling asleep at 3 then a short nap shouldn't impact too much on a 7.30 bedtime. I remember reading somewhere in sleep being in 40 minute cycles so I would try letting her sleep for 40 mins, she should be easier to wake after this time and also wake up happier. Evenings are lighter now so a good run around in the park/garden after supper and before bedtime routine should help. I'd give it a go for a week and see what happens.

Lying in her bed, shouting out for my attention until I get her up. She's asleep now but I am going to try and get tough

It could be over tiredness or maybe even an attetion thing. Is she better on the weekends/days she doesn't go to the CMer?

my friends 7yr lies in bed shouting muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumy im thirsty/need a wee/not tired/cold/hungary etc

and has done for many years, may be the odd night she doesnt moan with mummy

yet NEVER does it with daddy if mummy is out with me