Nannies: market rates (bit controversial)

[Tanzie]

Having read on another thread ("Paying Nannies when sick") gripes from UK nannies about jobs going to girls from accession countries who will work for less, (and do more in the way of housework), is this not just pushing the market rate down for qualified/experienced nannies?

I am not in UK, but I would look at it as providing more affordable childcare, provided you can find someone trustworthy and reliable. I lived in UK briefly about 4 years ago and a nanny friend of mine was earning GBP 25,000 and got a flat thrown in with it. This is more than I was earning at the time and could never have afforded this sort of money for someone to look after my children.

I am not suggesting slave labour from Central European girls, or paying them an au pair's "pocket money" for what is essentially a nanny job, but paying them a reasonable wage and providing free accommodation means that a lot of people, who could not afford a nanny or nursery fees, will probably be able to get back to work.

Of course, there will always be those who want a Norland nanny and can afford one, but it seems to me that your average Mum would welcome these Central Europeans with open arms...

I'll run and hide now...

My bath's gone cold while I've read this thread. And I don't ever have a bath in the morning - just a five minutes shower while the kids are fighting. Ds2 is playing with the swivelly chair and we are both still in our 'jamas. Sh*t - I'm having a lazy day!

Uwila - when you are on maternity will you still have your nanny/au pair or will you be 'going it alone'?

(No hidden agenda here - just asking!)

are you having a boy uwila?

MM - the only way I get a shower is to get up at 6.30 and go for a swim so I can then arrive home at 7.50 washed and dressed while dh goes off to work and I take over! If I don't go swimming, I don't get a shower - simple!

I'll be going it alone. Can't really justify the expense of nanny whilst I am in the bath sipping wine and eating sushi, and children are looking after themselves anyway.

yes, 'tis a boy.

Wow, GDG - I am seriously impressed.

Uwila - ahhh, a little boy - I LOVE boys (good job really!). That's lovely that you are 'going it alone' - enjoy it!!

MM - don't be, the kids are up anyway so it's a chance to escape the madness that is breakfast time, a chance to get a shower and it's just a bonus that I manage to stay fairly fit as a consequence!

I'm very late to this thread - shocking how RL gets in the way of MN

I have employed 2 nannies over the past 6 years - one qualified and one not. The qualified nanny was much better than the unqualified one and it was the option I chose while the children were younger and not at school.

Now the children are at school I use a housekeeper/nanny and TBH she's not ideal for either role! But she's good enough.

For clarity the unqualified nanny is British. I think the issue under discussion is actually more about qualified vs unqualified than it is about nationality! And whether an unqualified nanny is worth as much as a qualified one - I don't hink so in my experience (although I concede that my experience has not been extensive).

The thread has been an interesting read. I have to say I am largely on side with the nannies. It seems to me that mums can't on the one hand say that being a SAHM is exhausting etc etc etc (and we have loads of threads on here about just how exhausting it is and how much support is needed from our partners and how people wish the school holidays would end as they are exhausted looking after the children etc etc etc. Then on the other hand say that being a nanny is an easy option!

I think my childrens' nanny did a very hard job - she worked very long hours and then had to go home and do their own housework, shopping, chores etc. I think they deserve some respect for that! I think SAHM deserve respect for what they do and I equally think that WOHM deserve respect for what they do too!

I think that much of this discussion has devalued parenting, afterall I paid my nanny a small forture to parent my children on my behalf. I think it must be difficult to parent according to someone else's wishes all the time rather by your own instincts, my qualified nanny was in the main scrupulous about following my rules rather than her own. She was always extremely flexible about helping out around the house but on the other hand I never expected her to do anything that wasn;t agreed in advance. That she did so, was a bonus and she was rewarded well when she went the extra mile.

If you argue that nannies aren't worth much, then by the same argument I think you say that parenting is cheap too! And its not - its just about the hardest thing I have ever done - and I was happy to find someone who could do it almost as well as me

A word of praise for Issymum though - she hit the hammer on the head with her market economics comment. Parents employing a nanny may place value on entirely different things and how much they are prepared to pay will be part of that equation, that in turn will determine what level of experience and qualifications their nanny will have.

btw I do managed the odd 'lazy day' as a sahm, i.e. no housework at all, but devoting all my time to keep dd and ds entertained and having a giggle on mn... but then it's a case of 'enter at own risk' when visiting as the place will look like Hurricane XYZ has just gone through and visited again on the way back...

Ah but Mrs D - us employers would never put up with that from a nanny

House always has to be perfect when M&D return home from work and children looking clean and neat, and preferably, bathed and ready for bed!

I think thats part of what they are trained to do, and it always impresses the hell out of me when I'm clearing up the bombsite at the end of one of my days at home with the children

yep you've got a point there thankfully dh doesn't expect spick and span 'phew' as that's sometimes impossible to achieve. I tidy up home comes dd from nursery et voila... bombsite within 10 seconds flat

I think for me personally, perhaps 'lazy days' are harder to achieve because I'm a bit anal about cleanliness and tidiness and struggle to sit back while a mess develops. So I'm probably a bit more like a 'nanny' if you like in that I have to be doing something all the time so if not playing with or dealing with the kids in someway, I will be cleaning, washing, ironing or something and by the time dh gets in, the house is usually spotless, dinner dishes are done, our tea is probably prepared and kids are often bathed or in the process of being bathed.

I'm sad I know!!!

Your last comment was spot on Soapbox. My DH (and I was seriously pissed off about this) complained about how it was so much nicer to come home when I'd been at work than when I'd been at home with the kids. Basically because the house was tidy (no-one in it all day) and a meal just needed warming up (because I'd cooked double on my days off). And usually he'd get home maybe 20 mins before me so have time to chill out and get changed before I arrived home with the kids. Whereas on my days off, I would be running around getting the cleaning (or at least upstairs done), cooking, errands and spending time with the kids so, of course, there were toys out, the meal was half cooked, the kids were maybe not at their best.

But I can't really do lazy days as a SAHM because I only have two of them and no help other than DH. Still, not all bad, plenty of time to MN at work.

Actually I'm a bit like gdk and also had a word with DH about his attitude, plus now that DD is a bit older and napping better it is a bit easier to get things organised.

I disagree with "It seems to me that mums can't on the one hand say that being a SAHM is exhausting etc etc etc (and we have loads of threads on here about just how exhausting it is and how much support is needed from our partners and how people wish the school holidays would end as they are exhausted looking after the children etc etc etc. Then on the other hand say that being a nanny is an easy option! "

Being a mum is a 24 hour job, you can't leave it behind.

In between being a mum, you also have to juggle cleaning, cooking, ironing, shopping, household maintenance, daily trials and tribulations

As I see it being a nanny, you look after the children and that's it, if the children are older you ferry them to different activities and can have a break there. It is also important to allow them free reign to express themselves, so there's times for breaks there too.

I employ a wonderful nanny 3 days a week, but I know her life is easier than mine on a daily bais when she's with the children, because they are all she needs to focus on.

what's your secret?! I used to be this very organised person... now I just get by! dd is 3 and ds is 7.5 months

But Mud - the nanny does almost all of those things too - shops for the children, cleans up their mess (which is most houses is the majority of the tidying) keeps their rooms tidy does their washing and ironing, baths them, organises birhtday parties, gets presents and makes cards for them to take to other children's parties etc etc.

They then go home and do all of those things in their own house too!

Unless you have extremely messy adults in a house hold, which if they are both at work all day is unlikely, then the nanny is covering the majority of the patch IME!

I'm sorry to drag this up, but I really thought that penny lanes reasonw, why a british nanny is better than a non brittish one is crap
....."Ok here is a few reasons why we are better than a non British nanny (noticed I was P.C there ;))

1. As a British nanny I know the surrounding county?s like the back of my hand, so can go anywhere and know how to get there and back!
2. I have a British driving licence and I am a confident driver, not sure I would trust someone who drives on the right side of the road in their country to be driving my little ones around, besides I have been to a lot of European countries and our drivers look like experts in comparison. 3. How will a European nanny/aupair who barely speaks English herself, help a young child to speak, what if that child (like in one of my positions) has a speech impediment? Also will they know when to correct words/grammar?
3. When they are used to a different education system would they be able to help there charge with homework? Thought about this as I was helping my charge with his Maths and Reading today.
4. Lastly, a British nanny is more likely to stay in a position as they don't have a visa problem, and are usual local so are settled with family and friends. And not likely to get homesick. "......

I am sure that I can do all of that just as well, if not better.

1. When I came to this country, I bought an A-Z and didn't look back ever since. I always found my own way to where ever I was going
2. British drivers experts (you must be taking the piss) British drivers are so much more selfish and rude (roadrage springs to mind) than in any other european country (statistics, not my opinion), and I took a british driving test as soon as I came over, so I to have a british driving licence!!! 3.Some european nannies speak very good english, better than some english nannies I might add, and as for the correct use of grammar and spelling , well I passed proficiency in english. If any english nanny takes the test and passes I'd be very impressed. The fact is that 9 out of 10 british people can not pass that test!!!! 4.no matter how different the educational system in our country is, 2+2 is still 4 and helping with reading and maths should be no trouble 5 You might have a point there, true some nannies get home sick and have a time limit on their visa, but not all. My current job nearly 3 years

please don't let my bad typing skills convince you that I can't spell, or that I don't know how to construct a sentence (I'm to lazy to use capital letters and punctuation

"They then go home and do all of those things in their own house too! "

True but as someone else pointed out if you're out working all day and the kids aren't there - it doesn't get that messy so there's not much to do!! I was out most of yesterday with the boys, and when I got back the house was tidy.........meaning not much to do other than finish dinner off

Gwen - teh point is that they have as much to do in their own time as the working parent has to do in theirs!

i.e. thier own shopping, washing, ironing, cleaning the loo, their own cooking, washing up, hoovering, collecting parcels from teh PO (but my lovely nanny used to do this for me) etc etc.

So the nanny works all day and then has to do all her own stuff, and the parents work all day and still have to do their own stuff. One doesn't have it easier than the other IME as Mud was suggesting! She chooses to do some of this non-child focussed housework during the days she is not woth, the nanny has to do this in the evenings and weekends, assuming that she is working for someone else on the days Mud is at home!

Cronanny, good post. But I would say one thing further. I'm not sure she does have a point about Visas, as I believe the discussion is "Euronannies", which I have been defining as those from the EU. I guess if it includes Eastern Europe, then that could be an issue. But EU nationals can stay as long as they like without restriction.

Oh, and btw, as I myself learned to drive on the right side of the road, I can't say I thinks it all that compromising to my children's welfare to ride in my car.

but there are a few Eastern European countries IN the EU now

Soapbox, why is that different from any other career? We all have to take care of our person chores on our own time. And, actually, I think that parents are often quite accommodating on letting nanny squeeze some of her own chores into the job. If my nanny (who looks after one toddler) needed to say go to London for something, I am perfectly happy for DD to take a trip to London with her. DD like the train. And I think it's good for her to experience London. My job would never allow such a venture during working hours.

I was obviously referring to non-EU countries, like the former Soviet Union, Turkey, etc.