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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Nannies: market rates (bit controversial)

878 replies

Tanzie · 10/04/2005 19:35

Having read on another thread ("Paying Nannies when sick") gripes from UK nannies about jobs going to girls from accession countries who will work for less, (and do more in the way of housework), is this not just pushing the market rate down for qualified/experienced nannies?

I am not in UK, but I would look at it as providing more affordable childcare, provided you can find someone trustworthy and reliable. I lived in UK briefly about 4 years ago and a nanny friend of mine was earning GBP 25,000 and got a flat thrown in with it. This is more than I was earning at the time and could never have afforded this sort of money for someone to look after my children.

I am not suggesting slave labour from Central European girls, or paying them an au pair's "pocket money" for what is essentially a nanny job, but paying them a reasonable wage and providing free accommodation means that a lot of people, who could not afford a nanny or nursery fees, will probably be able to get back to work.

Of course, there will always be those who want a Norland nanny and can afford one, but it seems to me that your average Mum would welcome these Central Europeans with open arms...

I'll run and hide now...

OP posts:
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ScotsNanny · 12/04/2005 23:38

told you why I deleated my post, because I didnt like what I had written.

I have offered an olive branch, and it was snapped in 2.

I didnt like the comments I made, so I took care of it. I had been insulted thru this board implying that I sit on my back end all day doing nothing but drinking coffee and reading mags while have the telly on to occupy the children.

Gwenick · 12/04/2005 23:39

I had been insulted thru this board implying that I sit on my back end all day doing nothing but drinking coffee and reading mags while have the telly on to occupy the children.

I thought that's what you nanny's implied us SAHM's do all day! Too tired to trawl through the posts - please show me where someone said that you sit and drink coffee all day

ScotsNanny · 12/04/2005 23:42

go back about 2 days, Im not being rude, but Im not dragging it back up either.

I personaly never said that SAHM have an esy ride, far from it, I take my hat to you all who do it. Its a hard job!

Gwenick · 12/04/2005 23:46

also you have to admit it's a little difficult people to believe someone who at 11.05 said

"Yes, I posted that, and I stand by it! "

(about saying we all had dreadful family lifes)
Then 15 minutes later deleting their post on the other board, and 'giving an apology' here only to then say "It's about manners" which have apparently been lost here......................but also over on NJ!

LCM · 12/04/2005 23:48

Gwenick - fair points, but im not asking you to justify what you do all day. Im just saying that as a SAHM you have the choice to do what suits you, a nanny has to do what suits her employer. No, I wouldnt expect u to leave a 16mth old to play by themselves, but a child of that age usually takes a nap. So during nap time (depending on what the older child is doing) you may have a bit of free time. What you choose to do in that time is completely up to you, whether you choose housework or having some time to yourself is down to you. As a nanny you are usually expected to be doing child related chores & you still have your own to do when you get home. All Im trying to do is point out that a nanny is different from a SAHM, just because you work in a home environment it is not the same as being in your own home, its the same as being a working person. One thing that is the same though, mother or nanny its a job that no-one appreciates unless they have done it!!!

ScotsNanny · 12/04/2005 23:49

So,you have NEVER been angry for a couple of minutes and said something you wish you hadnt?

Gwenick · 12/04/2005 23:50

yes lots of times - but I'm usually 'brave' enough to leave the post there so others can see what happened AND post an apology - rather than just trying to delete it and pretend it never happened

Lisa2 · 12/04/2005 23:52

I admire scotsnanny for being so up front and honest about this. can you not give her a break now??

ScotsNanny · 12/04/2005 23:56

I am going to say this one last time, I HATED what I wrote, therefore removed it. I am done apoligising to you, because you are just doing EXACTLY what I did say in THAT post, and NOT listening (or reading as the case maybe!)

I see no need to apoligise om my board, since I retraceted it.
I apoligised on here. That is good enough.

sykes · 12/04/2005 23:56

I doubt this is helpful but just wanted to say that my nanny worked for us for three years full-time looking after two dds - she started when one was 12 weeks and one was two. She has been more than brilliant, still works one day a week as I'm now at home. The girls absolutely adore her and my nanny has the most fantastic relationship with them. ~She did so much for them when my h and I seperated, offered to move to live with us temporarily when I thought we migth have to move last year and has been an incredible support in too many ways to mention. She went far beyond the call of duty because she loves the girls, and her job and is part of the family. I trust her implicitly and she was worth far more than the £300 net a week I paid. I actually started a thread last year about a nanny of the year award.

ScotsNanny · 12/04/2005 23:57

Thank you Lisa.

AlisonA · 13/04/2005 02:18

Oh dear. What a thread. It has taken me well over an hour just to read through it .. & to be honest Im quite shocked. I too am a nanny & before anyone has a go at me .. I dont agree with everything that has been said on here by nannies .. nor that by parents. I have my own opinion & I am surely entitled to that .. so here it is!

I have worked in various nanny positions. I have worked for wealthy families with 6 houses .. I have worked for familes who have to have a nanny to survive as both parents choose to work. It is a choice .. & why should anyone berate them for making it?

I have, in my time, encountered good nannies .. bad nannies .. good employers .. & downright awful ones .. so I feel that I am well equipped to make comment.

As far as duties are concerned .. I am a nanny who chooses to take on jobs which specify nursery duties only .. ie those related solely to the child. If I see something else that is needing done, then generally I do it .. but I do object to CONSTANTLY being left piles of washing/washing up/rubbish from a weekend when 2 parents have been at home. Get my drift? Some people, as mentioned, do have a slight aversion to the dishwasher .. nannies & parents .. & I have had cause to ask my employer (who had just left 3 cups & plates on top of the dishwasher while I was feeding her daughter her lunch, then walked away) if there was something wrong with the dishwasher door .. as she seemed to be unable to use it. Cheeky you may think .. but its not my job to clean up after the parents. This doesnt make me a bad person. I just like to keep my time for the children & sorting them out & giving them the best care that I possibly can.

Those of you who currently have or have had professional careers .. did you go into the office to be asked by your employer if you would mind cleaning the toilets .. or sort out the cupboards .. or do his washing as he simply didnt have time? I dont think so. I like this comment from one nanny .. whose name has escaped me (I apologise) "There is a point which has been missed. Your nanny is exactly that your nanny. Your nanny is paid to do a job which is agreed in advance HOPEFULLY. Your nanny is not the parent and has not chosen to have your children and your family life. Your nanny is employed to help you where you need help but cannot replace you nor would want to. So why is there the expectation of many Nanny employers here to be you when you are not there?"

I rest my case on that one.

As for nannies having an easy day. Oh how I wish I had one of those days where you sit round all day drinking tea & watching Neighbours (which incidentally I havent seen since I was in primary school .. some 18 years ago!). I tend to be responsible for the care of young babies, so when they are asleep .. I will be cooking healthy, nutritionally balanced meals for them (see Annabel Karmel Baby & Toddler Meal Planner for more information!) ... usually do a few at a time & freeze them up .. so that not only can I grab whatever I need whenever I need it .. but so that the parents can too. When Im not doing that, I tend to be doing the child's washing .. or ironing .. or undertaking the cleaning & sterlising of their toys, bottles etc. In waking hours, I am always doing something with the child, be it activities at home .. toddler groups .. music classes .. art & craft sessions .. swimming .. etc etc. A nice quiet easy day would be nice .. but somehow I dont think I would be able to expect one in the near future.

I am not anti parent .. but I do think that some people should think very hard before posting on here. There have been comments about nannies being immature etc, but I didnt have to look too far to see it coming from the other side too .. which is a real shame.

Yes nannying can be a hard job. We generally work long hours (we not only have the parents working hours but their travelling time too) & we have the responsibility of looking after the most precious "thing" in someones life .. ie their child .. but add to that the fact that we often have to work for difficult parents & perhaps you can understand the pressure that some of us are under. You will also find that nannies in those situations often stick it out for long periods of time .. BECAUSE THEY LOVE THE CHILDREN!!

So as far as wages are concerned .. I think that they are very well deserved. Our hourly rates can sometimes be quite shocking .. but we love our jobs, so we get on with it.

The comment about why do nannies feel the need to be paid net .. well .. the simple fact is that nannies CANNOT be responsible, by law, for their own tax & National Insurance. I think you will perhaps find it benefitial to contact the Inland Revenue or Taxing Nannies/Nannytax regarding this matter .. just to make absolutely clear what the responsibilities of an employer of a nanny are.

I now not only work as a nanny, but I run my own Agency too .. so I am well aware of the needs of parents & nannies alike. I understand that some families needs are different to others .. that some families want nannies to do housework & the majority dont. If someone comes to me looking for a nanny then specifies housework, I suggest they get a Nanny/Housekeeper, but do not tend to suggest this to people who have pre-school children, as I feel it is more important that the children are looked after, rather than the house. Its all about knowing who to place where though .. & I feel through my vast experience in private homes, that I am able to do this very well indeed.

As for the BRITISH nanny thing ... erm .. I think perhaps people are confusing nannies with au-pairs here, which is so often the case. Anyway .. Im not even going to start on that one in depth .. Im not out to cause a riot!!

How about all this stupidity just ends now? What started out as a valid thread has become like a playground .. & amongst a group of adults, I really do find that quite disappointing.

Fingers crossed that this will be an end to the arguements .. life is too damn short!!!

Alison (A member for quite a while!)

skeptic · 13/04/2005 06:11

Ah, reinforcements! Come in and join the party!

Lots of point missing going on here.

The housework issue isn't about cleaning the house from top to bottom in addition to looking after babies. It's about not working around something simple that needs to be done for sheer pettiness and pigheadedness. For example, washing children's plates by hand rather than putting them in the D/W and turning it on because it contains parents dishes as well (I seem to remember that a nanny on this thread admitted to doing this); hoovering one child's room and then another one and not hoovering the hallway in between; not taking in parents' washing when it rains.

Foreign nanny does not equal au pair. This thread has nothing to do with au pairs, which are a different thing entirely. Although if the children are all school age, an au pair is a great choice for the family and a valid alternative to a nanny, childminder or after-school care.

Mums don't generally need to be told how hard looking after children is. We really, really do understand the job of a nanny.

Net pay. Right, employers deduct taxes from you pay - fine, it's the same for any employee. What is unusual about nannies is that their pay is quoted net, negiotiated net. Seems very "unprofessional" to me. Why not be quoted gross like anyone else?

MaryP0p1 · 13/04/2005 07:23

Sceptic I don't think you do understand what the job of a nanny is until you have done the job. I didn't understand the job and the stresses and strains of the job until I did it. Just as nobody an explain what it would be like to be a parent.

Well said Alison A.

flashingnose · 13/04/2005 08:00

I love the fact that lockets has been off and had a baby in the middle of all this!!

lockets · 13/04/2005 08:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MaryP0p1 · 13/04/2005 08:35

Are there many discussions like this or is this a regular event.

lou33 · 13/04/2005 09:03

certain topics are always guaranteed interesting reading, and keep us mods glued to the screen, whip and hat in hand.

SoupDragon · 13/04/2005 09:31

Has anyone posted a reminder of the MN philosophy on this thread yet? No calls for people to stop posting here nad to let this thread die??

What on earth is MN coming to. Over 700 bickering posts and not one philosophy reminder??

lou33 · 13/04/2005 09:33

er excuse me mrsdragon but i believe i mentioned it some way down.

lou33 · 13/04/2005 09:34

11th april at 10.24 am actually [smug emoticon]

SoupDragon · 13/04/2005 09:37

Phew! Couldn't be arsed to trawl through it all to check.

lou33 · 13/04/2005 09:42

i dunno, accusing me of not doing my job properly, you need taking in hand.

SoupDragon · 13/04/2005 09:43

Yeah? What you goning to do about it then? I have a spikey tail you know.

lou33 · 13/04/2005 09:46

am fingering my mod hat, flexing my whip....

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