Nannies: market rates (bit controversial)

[Tanzie]

Having read on another thread ("Paying Nannies when sick") gripes from UK nannies about jobs going to girls from accession countries who will work for less, (and do more in the way of housework), is this not just pushing the market rate down for qualified/experienced nannies?

I am not in UK, but I would look at it as providing more affordable childcare, provided you can find someone trustworthy and reliable. I lived in UK briefly about 4 years ago and a nanny friend of mine was earning GBP 25,000 and got a flat thrown in with it. This is more than I was earning at the time and could never have afforded this sort of money for someone to look after my children.

I am not suggesting slave labour from Central European girls, or paying them an au pair's "pocket money" for what is essentially a nanny job, but paying them a reasonable wage and providing free accommodation means that a lot of people, who could not afford a nanny or nursery fees, will probably be able to get back to work.

Of course, there will always be those who want a Norland nanny and can afford one, but it seems to me that your average Mum would welcome these Central Europeans with open arms...

I'll run and hide now...

How do any of you afford a nanny, judging by the "going rate" on here being quoted. Wouldn't it be cheaper to stay at home until the kids go to school?! Not being arsey but just curious.

If I stayed home until the kids go to school, I would have to start my career over (or rather find a new one). And, I'm not prepared to make that sacrifice. ACtually, there are loads of reasons... but this would be a radical subject change on this thread. Prefer not to say any more.

However, to answer your question about how I afford it: Just barely! And, uh, a couple of nannies on here would be horrified to find out what I pay. I won't be quoting the figure here.

jollymum, for me having a nanny was so my DH could go out to work. He is an actor and his job is very erractic. When we first got a nanny he had a job and we needed someone to work 8 - 7.30 5 days a week for 2 kids, inc a baby. Very long hours and a temporary 7 week job. Our nanny was so good that my parents offered to help us out (interest free loan) to make sure we could keep her. At the time this saved our families sanity as DH could know that he could actively seek work, before then he took ad hoc jobs but childcare was never really stable. I am now in debt to my parents for £8000 as they paid for the nanny when dh wasn't working. Sonds crazy, but he had auditions and the like and this meant he was free to find work and my children had a stable environment for 2.5 years. When he wasn't working full time he did lots of odd things that would cover some of her wages.

If however the suituations had been reversed and I was the struggling actor and DH had earnt what I do I would have stayed at home. It is that old male pride that meant dh refused to be a house husband!!

JOLLYMUM... for me it can be summed up in one word why I want to go back to work... SANITY
as for affording nanny/childcare in general... would just be scraping by

I (almost) wish I hadn't started this, but it's been interesting...

I work because I have a career and we couldn't afford to pay the mortgage if we didn't both work.

I don't see the issue "people coming from other countries and taking our jobs." If the job on offer pays, say, for the sake of argument, 800 GBP per month net, live in, and you wouldn't consider working for this amount of money, but someone else would, they are not taking "your" job, are they?

I expect those who work for me to clear up after the children and make sure the place is clean and tidy when we come home from work (by this, I mean clean and tidy all the areas where the children have been playing - not to tidy our room, the study etc.). I do the washing and heavy cleaning and employ someone to do the ironing. I also cook the children's food, so that it only has to be reheated. I don't expect gourmet meals from scratch. And I don't think I ever said that Euronannies would work for less and do all the housework, just that they did tend to be more flexible in what they would or wouldn't do.

I'm glad you started it Tanzie. Just sorry I missed it at the peak of excitement.

Forgot to say, I'd also go mad if I were a SAHM, but now that the girls are at school, it is becoming a more appealling option.

tanzie, i do all of what you said plus more, A LOT MORE>

My arguement is not that i don't want to do the relevent work ( trust me i do, could fill the screen with my duties alone and did it unill 2 days before i had DS)but that i can offer a lot more than european nannies all of which have been mentioned on this site before.

NannyJo, like what? (she asked ungrammatically). I am not being controversial now, I am genuinely interested.

I think this thread has almost run its course but I just wanted to put in another word ....

Its a myth (at least in London) that Euronannies are cheap - they (provided they are nannies and not just au pairs) get paid the same as home grown nannies as far as I can see from my recent and prolonged dip into the market via websites/ agencies/ Simply Childcare etc. However IMO they do have a different approach to the classic homegrown NNEB on lots of fronts and probably because they have had to struggle a bit to get themselves established here are often more flexible about all sorts of things.

As for why we have nannies if they are so expensive - well for me its just so that I can keep my career ticking over while the kids are young to enable me to set up my own business when they are at school and thereby fit in my work with their lives.

I don't cover the costs of childcare with my salary, I'm using up savings to do it but I see it as an investment for the future. Its also a personal choice about the type of care I want my kids to have - I like the fact that they are looked after at in our home and are together as a family unit.

However I know I'm lucky to be able to have this choice & totally appreciate that everyone has to find the best solution for their circumstances.

I'd like to hear too Nannyjo

i could list what jobs i do as a nanny if nannyjo doesn't

For all mums out there, as a qualified nanny of 11years , I take great pride in the work I do.
Within my work I work a lot on improving the babies and childrens fine and gross motor skills through all sorts of ways that they cannot possibly experience going to a nursery and probably wouldn't either with their parents.
I also provide stimulating activies, make sure the childrens educational skills are up to scratch as best they can, at 3 I start handwriting practise using the correct tools etc.As well as providing them with music from around the world and trips out etc, libraires aswell are always a must.
Whilst I was at college we had to learna huge variety of subjects inc about child and infant psychological development and theoriest such as Piaget, Frued, Skinner, Montessori, etc etc as well as the people themselves. We also have to learn about all the ELGs adn how to put them into practise , do you want me to go on?
How many of you parents keep your 1st aid certificates upto dat , that's if you have ever done one at all. How many know how to fit a car seat correctly, or know without looking in a book the possible signs of meningitis and how they differ from an infant to children?
Our average day is usually for 12hours, would you work 12 hours a day and then have travelling time to and from work on top of that?
As qualified nannies we spent 2years in college FULL TIME learning the ins and outs of being a nanny. We went to college just like some of you who work probably did and deserve just as much repsect, do you clean your office at work?Do you haev to hoover and dust your office and clean the windows? NO you probably dont, eyt we all are qualified at something, so why should we as nanies be treated like drop outs. Our place of work is our office , adn why should we have to clean our office, you don't.

me too nannyjo. What have you got to offer that I will find worth giving you and Gordon Brown my entire salary.

That's all fine and dandy, NannyIsBest, good on you. But my Euronanny does most of those things and the nursery fills in on the others. Not convinced by knowledge of the theorists. I'd want someone who could entertain my small child, not give me a lecture on Maria Montessori.

I am what you are refering to a Euronanny, as I am from Croatia. I worked as a nanny here in London for 10 years and always had a job.
Now I know why some of english nannies are getting a bit defensive, and I must say I feel the same.
I think the main problem is that most of the euronannies do not pay tax or national insurance, so that is why they are cheaper.
And I just haaaaaaaaaate it when parents moan about paying nannys tax and NI. Come on people, this is the real world, and I think you need to realise that you are not paying your nanny a gross wage, and than deducting the tax and NI.
While a euronanny is happy to work for cash in hand (not all of us off course) an English nanny demands a gross wage, hence it is more expensive.
I get upset too with the fact that there are a lot of girls here now, and working for cash in hand. It is not that they are not good enough, or taking "our" jobs, or not qualified, the problem is with this cash in hand payement system. If I am paying my taxes and NI, so should all other euronannies. And once they have to deduct tax and NI from what they are getting, their price will go up soon as well!!!!!!
Correct me if I'm wrong

I think one of those women on that Grumpy Old Women had a point - kids aren't given the chance to be bored anymore, and they need to have that time - to learn how to just get on, on their own for a bit.

Nannyisbest, my ascension country nanny does all of those things. It's her job. She has more education than what you have just described. She does not vacuum, wash windows, etc. She does do the dishes and the laundry for the whole family.

My barely 2 year can count to 12, knows the basic shapes (square, circle, triangle, etc.) and draw them. She speaks in short sentences. She's probably not einstein, but she is certainly on par with her peers. Yes, my nanny knows first aid. She also has degrees in health (including nutrition), education, and even one in veterinary medicine.

Now what were you saying about my underqualified eastern european nanny????

She is leaving us when I start maternity leave. Basically she overqualified and underchallenged in this job. Can't say I blame her.

But, nothing I have read on this thread suggests to me that English nannies recieve an education that qualifies them for a salary which higher than hers.