Nannies: market rates (bit controversial)

[Tanzie]

Having read on another thread ("Paying Nannies when sick") gripes from UK nannies about jobs going to girls from accession countries who will work for less, (and do more in the way of housework), is this not just pushing the market rate down for qualified/experienced nannies?

I am not in UK, but I would look at it as providing more affordable childcare, provided you can find someone trustworthy and reliable. I lived in UK briefly about 4 years ago and a nanny friend of mine was earning GBP 25,000 and got a flat thrown in with it. This is more than I was earning at the time and could never have afforded this sort of money for someone to look after my children.

I am not suggesting slave labour from Central European girls, or paying them an au pair's "pocket money" for what is essentially a nanny job, but paying them a reasonable wage and providing free accommodation means that a lot of people, who could not afford a nanny or nursery fees, will probably be able to get back to work.

Of course, there will always be those who want a Norland nanny and can afford one, but it seems to me that your average Mum would welcome these Central Europeans with open arms...

I'll run and hide now...

Have to have a look at that later
like your take re euronannies... my point exactly, now I could possibly afford a nanny. Also it's not that easy anymore to find a childminder since they've been Ofsted'd there seem to be less around. I guess the paperwork scares them off.

English nanny = brand image? That's an interesting question. It probably used to be when it was the exlusive domain of the rich and few and they had a stern nanny (stereotyp I know ).

I myself am not so worried about 'qualifications' as I much prefer common sense, a friendly patient nature (essential with my dd... 3 and asking all those annoying and incessant questions ) and just good with the kids.

Better go and spend some 'quality time' with my children ... and I'm not talking Miriam Stoppard's Golden hour. My kids get much more than that.

Off now to play Barbies' Horseshow on this pc with dd I know I'm such a bad mother letting her play computergames

OMG. I really do hope some of you were playing devil's advocate!

I am English and I believe what tosh when comparing UK to overseas nannies. If they have experience and are qualified they are the same and should be paid accordingly. I think there have been some terribly sweeping statements from soem potential BNP supporters that I made me think I am glad that I am leaving the country.

I have worked professionally in childcare for many years and prior to doing that worked putting on and administering conferences and I KNOW I got paid a lot more for less work previously. However I chose to do work with children regardless of the lack of money because of the sense of satisfaction it gives me. I could easily go back to working in an office and the 9-5 but I don't think its for me.

However working with children while having children and a family of your own is very difficult and I know few people who do it completely successfully and earn a decent wage. Finding a family that will take you on, or even interview you, if you have a family is virtually impossible especially since I have 2 children. So much so I gave up and began work in a nurseries but even that was difficult because some places won't allow you to bring your own child and if you are they charge you the same as everybody else normally. You earn possibly slightly more than minumum wage and are given LOOKS when you have anything to do with your child like you somehow showing favoritism among the children.

I am a nanny who is happy to do any household chores just as would in my own home. I actually think that its good for the children to be involved and learning and understand what is to run a home. I consider myself to be a responsible and intelligent person, my children are well behaved, nicely mannored children and yet with 2 children I could not find work as a nanny. I understand parents concerns and the parents point of view, however from my point of view its frustrating.

I am qualified and have 8 years experience of working with children full time and then another further probably 10 babysitting experience. If I am brutally honest about by NNEB it was easy and only formalised what I already knew but people like qualifications. I personally think watching me with the children and speaking to me will tell you I earn my wage.

PS. I'd never really thought about the English nanny image. Do you think that should be my USP when we move?

found it... nannyjobs thread

gotta love the

'Bunch of half wits some of them. Care more about their dishwashers being emptyed and their knickers washed than their childrens welfare.'

Istrongly object being called a half wit I'm a total wit atm due to 3.5 years of sleep deprivation!

and how dare she say I care more for my dishwasher than my kids! Obviously kids come first!!!

"Beetroot
It is starnge they there has been so msny assumptions by apparently 'well' educated people. I dont think anyone has been asking nanny's to do menial tasks on this thread. It i has been mostly about euro nannies ..."
It has been about Nannies doing housework as that was the given reason by some parents here as to why they hired a European nanny instead.

"If the work wasn't there and they weren't wanted then they wouldn't be 'coming over here' and stealing local jobs as it were."
But I think it's been established that the reason there is a demand is because they are cheaper, not because they are better. Which proves us nannies points all along.

MaryP0p1 where are you moving too? Will you continue childcare?
I am hoping to move out of this country in the next few years, I have nearly 10 years nanny expierence so by the time I moved It will proabably be over 12 years so judging by what Mrbig d said I should be able to get into Australia easier. But frankly I wouldn't mind doing another proffesion if I had to.

Can't believe that thread on that site - words astound me!!

also - if they're all such fantastic nannies, and therefore obviously employed - why are they on the computer at the moment instead of looking after someone's 'precious charge'????

Personaly if I could afford a nanny then I'd be quite happy for them to let my child watch TV for a short time each day. When DS1 gets home from nursery he's exhausted and all he really wants to do is 'veg' for a little while. I've 'tried' doing things with him and he doesn't want to - and therefore its in 'his' best interests to sit down and do nothing for 3/4hr or so...........

Hello Ladies, welcome to the newbies,I hope you all enjoy MN, and use it in a beneficial way.

Am concerned about some of the postings on this thread, and the way some personal and possible rascist comments have been made. Can we remember that this is a website which is for lively debate and discussion, but also for support?

I know I will have eyeballs rolling , but please read the mumsnet philosophy below, before you consider posting anything that may be contentious.

I thank you

"A word about our philosophy
The idea of mumsnet is that by pooling knowledge and experience, parents make the job of parenting easier. Please bear in mind that issues to do with raising children can be very sensitive and that everyone has the right to make their own choices when it comes to bringing up their kids. This is a discussion forum and we ask you to respect other people's right to their opinions, even if you disagree with them. Our policy is to keep intervention to a minimum and let the conversation flow. Having said that we will remove postings that are obscene, racist, or contain personal attacks. Please bear in mind that we all know how difficult this parenting business can be, and if there's one thing all of us could do with, it's some moral support. "

I think some of things said on both sites have been interesting with a capital I.

Penny, I'm going to Italy in 2/3 weeks.

I understand in Italy nannies are called babysitters and earn about the same money as here but often work 6 days a week like most Italians.

I am thinking of helping my friend initially. She runs a business teaching English to children. Like our French classes. I don't need to work for a while.

I haven't read all teh postings on this thread and can only talk from experience as a mum who had a brilliant nanny.

My nanny was fantasic, she did everything for my girls and we still miss her. She was english and always did extra stuff that I didn't ask her to do. ie empty dishwasher, weekly shop etc. Yes I did say WEEKLY shop. In the end I used to just leave her a list, as she enjoyed doing it and asked if she could. I would NEVER have expected her to do this, and it was NEVER part of her job. Nor was working overtime for nothing (that other parents seem to do all the time). Personally I find that other parents used to abuse their nannies in a much worse way than expecting a clean house. I knew most nannies whose employers used to come home 1 - 2 hours late almost every day, also expect babysitting free of charge and overnighters with a token extra payment. To me this is bad, it assumes that nannies have no life of their own and that they are at your beck and call outside of official hours.

OK I wanted my nanny to tidy up (actually she told me she would) and she used to always have a gripe at DH who left things a mess for her. But I never asked her to work late and never took the piss.

I don't think it is an english, european thing I think it is common courtesy. I am disgusted when parents don't offer market wages and good conditions, are their children less important than a posh hairdo or one dress !!!

crunchie

'I am disgusted when parents don't offer market wages and good conditions, are their children less important than a posh hairdo or one dress'

Well actually in our case it's we'd be happy to pay great money for a great nanny irrespective of nationality, but can't afford to. Even if I go back to work I still won't be able to afford the posh hairdo or a posh frock... so not putting kids before retail therapy.

so I'm glad there are European nannies coming over who are a bit cheaper so I can afford it and give them a job whilst I go back to mine. And only because they're cheaper doesn't mean they're worse at what they do and that I'd take advantage or create bad working conditions! For the financially not so fortunate these 'Europeans' are a god (or who ever you believe in) sent.

it goes to show it is a very personal and private thing when it comes to choosing a nanny. Like some parents have said a good nanny is hard to find in some areas. If both nanny and family are happy and reach an agreement on the conditions of work and contract then who is anyone else to get involved in their decisions.
From this thread it shows that on some parents lists a good nanny comes first, what ever the cost. On others list the price of a nanny obviously is more important to them.
It's a sahme it had to get so heated but obviously strong feelings are involved on this topic for a good reason, after all we are talking about the most important things in our lives. Well my DS is to me!!

There does seem to be a group of people who have had children and now need childcare and need to work but seem to think their nanny does not have the same wants and needs as themselves.

I was thinking about this thread as loading the dishwasher and my thoughts were

I bet that companies wouldn't pay the rates they do if they could get away with it.....in fact whenever there is a change in employment law various bodies start shouting we'll be out of business if......the mothers who are talking about the costs of childcare as an excuse to pay low wages aren't very different....I think that if you were to go into one of these old Etonian mens clubs the conversation wouldn't be very different..these women get themselves pregnant and expect us to pick up the pieces and pay for it to, when they come back their more interested in their children than their work.......

it is also about finance mrsbigd and i think that is where the confusion has come in some are talking about those who can afford the quality nannies and scrimp, others are talking about not being able to afford these nannies so is it fair they miss out on the care that we ae talikng about. I'm ananny and a mum. i could never afford to pay my wages to another nanny so we have no choice but to make alternative arrangemtnes. I'm lucky i can take DS with me but if i was in a job where i couldn't then i would also be in your situation

not currently working at the moment, still on maternity leave, if i was i wouldn't be on this site now!!

not necessarily 'as good' but that is what this whole issue is about, lets not go there again

Dear Mums
a few points i want to POLITLY make clear here are:

1. I am on here at this time of the day, because I work 3 days a week. This is my choice to do so, mostly due to health issuses and dealing with hospital appointments. When I am at work, then I deal with the children, 100%.

2. most of the photos on our website are NOT of our charges, they are of naany own children, not employers children or like other case, neices and nephews. We have permission to use these photos.

Lastly I love Nanny Job, in the same way you guys love Mumsnet, as each has its own qualitys.
I cant belive some of you got so angry at they Nannies for defending our reputation, and education, which was taking a beating last night.

I felt very hurt and insulted by some of the comments being thrown at me.

I am a great Nanny, and proud to be one!
Thankyou for reading.

my company boss if off again.. and another thing if she's off sick or the childs off sick I have to pay someone else to do the job I have to pay twice... my company is struggling anyway I can't afford staff off sick and pay them.

MrsBigD I am sorry if I sounded like I was having a go at you. I really wasn't I know with our nanny she could have got better pay elsewhere (and now has) but at least we didn't expect her to do more than she should do. When we had her my DH entire wage after childcare was £50 a week!! (he pays childcare as i am the main breadwinner) therefore it was hardly worth him working We also probably should have paid her more, but we couldn't afford it. However I think her knowledge/training and social group of friends (nanny mafia) gave her the advantage over an overseas nanny. However we are not in London, we live in Colchester, so other friends were really important and there used to be a gang of nannies/kids that played together a lot. This worked for me and my kids, and I couldn't imagine an overseas nanny coming here and being able to offer my kids this.

Perhaps if we had space for a live-in nanny I would look at an overseas nanny, but we needed a local person as we didn't have live-in space.

I suppose it just makes me cross the threads where people are trying to 'save' money by not paying fair wages/not paying sick pay etc etc. But then we were lucky we had supernanny who lived in teh next village to us

I'm afraid it's just another example of jobs moving east.
Most manufacturing work has now left Britain, some to central Europe, some to China.
Call centres have gone to India.
Secretarial work is done in India and returned electronically overnight to UK for posting.
Jobs based in the UK (e.g. nannies) are just the latest to feel the impact of the free movement of labour (farm work and hotel work were involved a lot earlier).
What will the future bring? Who can guess? I wouldn't think there are many safe jobs now. Wage rates in UK are likely to fall.
Whether it's right or wrong, it's the way it is.

Im not so sure that most nannies look for the job with the most money.
I know I have earned a heck of a lot more in other jobs than where I am just, but this family and I "conneceted", and I dont want to be anywhere else. The Mum must also feel its right, as she was going to give up work if I couldnt return to them.