Overwhelmed - how to decide on a childcare option...

[SugarGlider]

I'm sitting out my last few days before my DC1 arrives and have been meaning to investigate childcare options and get my baby's name down, as I expect to have to go back to work after six months... BUT I am struggling. I have the list of childminders and nurseries in the area, and there are many options - but I can't begin to think how to narrow them down and what questions to ask when I do... (and I don't know any other parents locally who may be able to make personal recommendation). Anyone been through this?

The best thing to do really, is to go and visit them - you really get a feel for the place and will start to see whether you want your child in nursery or with a child minder.

I personally went for a nursery as I didn't feel that anyone who came into the childminder's house could be CRB checked (relatives etc) and so felt nursery was the safer option and so started from this basis. I also put together a list of questions to ask them - I thought I had it saved to post here but I don't, although if you trawl mnet, you will find threads detailing the questions

Bottom line really though, is the feel of the place - the nursery DS is in, had that feel when we went in - happy, homely, clean etc and that combined with the Ofsted report, answers to questions etc, decided it for us

Hope this helps a bit?

you need to visit as many as you can and get a FEEL for them - how the children are interacting in each setting, how you feel about the staff/childminder etc etc.

I would wait until baby arrives, so you know how you feel about your baby too and your baby's needs/wants.

We ended up choosing a nursery because we liked the thought of our dt's playing and growing up with multiple children of the same age whereas a childminder would only have your LO along with a few older children. Because of my and my DH's work commitments we liked the continuity of care element - no issues with staff illness as its their responsibility to have the staff numbers to cover - if your childminder is ill, you have to take time off work or find another childminder....not something we could do at the drop of a hat.

You HAVE to be comfortable with your choice though, so any element of doubt needs to be ironed out and discussed with the carer in question else you will be sat at work worrying - and then posting on here asking "this happened to DC today, should I be worried....."

Good luck in your search, and of course good luck on arrival of DC!

You also need to cost it all up. Childminders generally work out cheaper than nurseries, which may have a bearing on your decision.

cost it out is good advice

my ex-childminder was slightly more expensive than a nursery and I had to pay for her holidays and find alternative care - quite expensive

(not trying to open that old row again that's just my experience)

also, look at the other kids she minds...your LO could be stuck in car all day (or in a buggy) going from pillar to post doing school drop offs/pick ups

good luck

firstly do you know what hours you are going to be working and what days?

then are the hours always going to be the same and the days

do you have any standbys if a childminder is ill?

we chose a nursery because it opened from 8am til 6pm and there would be no problem with staff sickness

we only looked around one as all the others in the area didn't open at 8am, most opened too late for me to get to work for 9am

I know it's different with nurseries but not everyone sorts out a nursery place before their dc is born. Certainly with childminders I'd wait to be able to visit with the baby, though again it varies and I did find someone in advance (who just wanted a deposit of a week's money rather than a retainer). The CM I chose made a point of asking to hold ds and get him playing with toys, then aged about 6 months, which impressed me - he started with her full time at 10 months and settled in quickly, he really loves it there now.

Yes you don't really need to worry about it now you know.... You know Sugarglider, I can't help wondering if you are having the pre-birth nesting urge that traditionally is meant to make women clean the house before they go into labour only in your case it is taking the form of a frantic urge to sort out your childcare

ali bubbles list to ask cm's

How long have you been working with children?

What training have you had? Any qualifications? Are you part of a network, achieved a quality assurance qualification, look at registration certificate, insurance details, business use for car. First aid must be no more than 3 years old, food hygiene certificate, Certificate in Childminding practice or NVQ 3, Contracts and record forms

Do you enjoy being with children and why?

Can I look around, see the rooms and outside play space? If there is no outside play space - how will you make sure my child gets the chance to play outside?

Where will my child rest?

What kind of food and drink will you give? Can I see a menu?

What will my child do all day?

How do you encourage good behaviour?

Will my child be with a regular group of children? How old are they? How will their timetable fit in with my child?

How will you make sure I know how my child is getting on?

What hours is she open?

How much does she charge?

What about when my child is sick, holidays, days off

What do you do in an emergency?

When was her last Ofsted, can you see the report?

Top 10 Quality Pointers

When you visit possible childcare options, look for these Quality Pointers:

Are the children calm, safe, happy and busy?

Do children play and talk together?

Is the childminder listening to the children and answering them carefully?

Is the childminder friendly and proud of her work?

Is she joining in joining in with what the children are doing?

Are there lots of fun activities planned to help children learn and play? Can children plan some of these activities themselves?

Are there plenty of clean toys and equipment for children to use?

Is the premises clean, well kept and safe for children with a fun outside play area (or will the child go to parks and other places regularly)?

Do parents have plenty of chances to say what they want for their children?

If there are other things you want to know, don't be afraid to ask. Good childminders expect you to ask questions and will be happy to answer them.

Always take up references. You could ask for names of other parents to talk to about the service

Listen to your child and find out more if he/she is unhappy
Always trust your own feelings about your childcare - you know your child best

Whatever you choose, especially if you book it early, go back for a visit a month or two before you go back to work. Assess it as though you were making the decision for the first time and if it's wrong, change it.

I chose a nursery for DS but it was a very bad choice and I just sat there thinking oh it will be okay when the time comes. Then I had to find a CM at very very short notice because the nursery environment was not right for my child.

Thanks everyone -- that's really helpful. I think I am slightly worried because my DH and I have spoken about him taking six months off when I go back (I can't afford to be off more than six months, but we can manage just on my wage for a while I think), but I am worried about him giving up his job in this climate and also I think he'll need to see if he still feels up to it after the baby comes ... so I don't know if I will need childcare in six months or one year, yet with waiting lists of many many months for lots of nurseries, I feel really neglectful for not looking into it earlier. Argh...

But, Kathy, when you say nesting urge you wouldn't be referring to behaviour like clearing out eight years worth of emails from my hotmail account? Can't clean for toffee, but I suddenly felt I just HAD to sort that out NOW ...

ROFL @ your email cleanup - nesting for the digital age
Good luck for whenever it comes, anyway!

Is this your first child? If so you'll probably get to know loads of other parents when you start going to baby clinic and toddler groups etc. I'm sure some of them will have older children and share their experiences. When I had my DS, I felt a bit in the dark too, but me and 2 other mums, visited nurseries and found out about CMs together. Still as everyone else has said make sure you visit lots and choose the one you feel is right for your LO. Good Luck!

I ended up choosing a childminder for my DS1 when I went back to work because I wanted a homely atmosphere and liked the idea of different age children around - more like having a family than nursery. So for every plus point someone has about nurseries/childminders, someone else will have it as a negative! I didn't end up sending my DS1 to nursery until he was 3.9 and it was time for a year's preschool. My DS2 started nursery earlier (16mo) and it has been utterly right for him. You just have to be prepared to look around and think about your child. Different children have very different needs. You won't be happy unless you feel your child is happily settled. You also don't need to worry about making a decision now which will last until school starts. You can change provision later as your child's needs change.

where abouts do u live. . . someone on here might be able to recommend u!

As thingone says we all have differing opinions about negatives and postives. I went for nursery rather than cm.This was because my ds was only 7 months when I went back to work and the 2 cms I saw both had school kids to be picked up. This meant if my little one was hungry or needed changed he would just need to wait till the school run was done.. cos quite rightly cm couldnt leave child at school gates

Its so true that on visits your motherly instincts will say oh yes I could leave my little one here or oh no I couldnt

good luck

Right I am going to say something now that will cause a stir but I'm not saying it to be controversial.

I am a nanny, I also work in a child minding environment (have worked with 6 different childminders as emergency help and know of about 10 other childminders who are NOT my friends) and I have worked in about 10 different nursery's again on an emergency cover basis. I also go to each different setting to collect and drop of children in my care etc.

When I have children it is highly unlikely that I will be putting them into any sort of nursery setting. Of course this does depend on the nursery but on the whole every nursery environment I have ever worked in or been too has shocked me to my core.

Reasons
Most nursery workers (you might get 1/2 lovely lovely people in most average sized settings) hate working in a nursery, most don't even like children and they certainly don't care for them in the same way I care for children in my care. Key workers develop a bond but it always seems superficial to me, a key worker will normally still put themselves first (I find this happens less with nannies and CMs)

Parents always think that's it's great to have continuity in care, but Nursery turn over is phenomenal. One nursery I temped in, a poor little boy had lost his key worker every month for his first 4 months!

Because there are lots of staff and lots of children I find the staff being drawn to each other and having a lot less time for the children.

Parents often feel nursery helps children develop socially and I would say that this is not true at all. It does depend on your child and I would say in about 30% of cases nursery settings can cause social development problems mainly because the child does not get enough 1-1 time. The sheer number of times I have gone to a nursery setting and seen the same child playing by themselves saddens me. Sure some children like to play by themselves but not all day every day!

Lots of parents feel that a nursery is safer (they normally have restricted access doors etc) but I have on numerous occasions (3 in last 2 weeks!) been allowed into a nursery without a single person asking who I am. On one specific occasion I put my mindee on the loo, then 2 of the nursery children and wiped a runny nose. I was within an inch of changing a nappy too! All this before someone asked me what I was doing. I think it's because there is no one person who is accountable day to day - only when something goes wrong (ie serious injury etc) do most nursery managers become aware of something. Nursery workers each seem to think, "let someone else deal with it's not my problem" etc.

Most children in nursery setting don't get enough exercise of experience of the world around them.

I could go on and on, but wont because there are good nurseries out there and it is unfair to bash them all. What I would say is that the inspection process and Ofsted grading is heavily weighted in favour of a nursery because they have the time and numbers to be shit hot on procedures and paperwork. If you have an outstanding nursery and a good childminder do not assume the nursery is better from a loving, nurturing point of view.

I personally would only put a child of mine in a nursery setting if I felt the children and nursery workers AND manager had a very evident connection. ie. staff on floor playing with toys not in tea room, whoever is showing you around talks to children not just exclusively to you, lots of tactile hugs and similar.

Basically the only way you can decide would be best for you and your child would be to go to a different settings and decide from there. You can't do this until the little one is born so save yourself some stress and enjoy your pregnancy. Oh and I would use Ofsted reports as mere guides (unless anything within them is glaringly wrong!). If you want to play a numbers game then on the whole I (personally) would say a childminder setting is best for most children

[waits for flame] [scared face]

navyeyelash, I won't flame you. It pretty much chimes in with my much more limited experience of nurseries.

I know four people who are now mums who used to work in nurseries. They don't any of them use a nursery for their own children, which is pretty telling.

I do think it's a disadvantage of CMs that they are up and down doing the school run and the younger children have to come along, and it initially put me off, but oh how I wish I'd believed the research I read and gone for a CM. After all, SAHMs or nannies with older siblings have to bring the younger child on school runs - it's only the PFB that gets out of it.

PJW - Many childminders do not allow any visitors at all when minding. I certainly don't and I'm not unusual in this.

Also, I'll echo the comment made by mrsgboring. I too know many people who have worked in nurseries in the past, and as a result of their experiences, have never used a nursery for their own children. That's good enough for me.

Not going to flame you NavyEyeLash - I would simply say - 'So if you choose a nursery make sure it's a good one!'

I have experience of good and bad nurseries. In the bad one the staff were as you describe, as was the turnover. In the good one there is hardly any turnover and we are good friends with many of the staff. They have told us hair-raising stories of nurseries they used to work in which are pretty much as you describe.

I would also add - don't go by the OFSTED report, both the nurseries I have used which were as different as chalk and cheese currently have 'satisfactory' ratings.

One of the things my DS1 really liked about his last CM was doing the school run. It meant a walk for everybody, and the walk was often made longer to include something interesting, and he loved having the older children at the end of the day. It was good for him to see school as an exciting place you could look forward to going to.

navyeyelash.. that is is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Personally I think we have a fab nursery.. my ds gets lots of tlc and lots of adult led activities as well as free play.

I always say speak as you find..

and as the point about the school run proves what one person sees as a negative one person sees a positive.. (now my ds is a toddler I think he would enjoy it too thingone)

go with your instincts Sugargilder.. you wont go far wrong

Thanks again everyone -- I feel a bit calmer now.

One thing that does worry me - if I find a CM or nursery I really like and there is a big waiting list, is it very frowned upon to go somewhere else that does have an immediate place for a short time? Obviously you would want to avoid this, but I am imagining that lots of parents face that dilemma? Must be frustrating for all involved?

I thought the ideal person to look after DC1 when I returned to work was a CM who could look after her in a home setting and give her lots of attention. But I used to live in a fairly dodgy area where there were v few official ie. properly checked CMs. I ended up using a nursery near work - travel nightmare but at least she was near me in the day, the care was good and the staff turnover wasn't bad at all.

By the time the management changed - for the worse - I'd seen plenty of CMs and nannies taking their charges to music clubs, playgroups etc. and was not impressed by the lack of attention they showed the kids, their rushing off for fag breaks etc. Probably very much like a group of mothers, and not doing anything really negligent, but I wouldn't want to risk it. We'd moved house by then and found a lovely nursery near home, which both kids went to. I know there are rubbish nurseries, but always felt happier that if one carer was having a bad day there would be others to look after my babies, and liked the social atmosphere of a good, happy nursery.

A school run is really not a bad thing for younger children to experience. The excitement amongst toddlers, or even younger children, when I say, "let's go and pick the big children up" is wonderful. All the children are happy to see each other in the school playground, and the interaction continues at my house. The mix of older and younger children can also provide many positive life experiences.

I also accept that there is continuity of care in a nursery in that the child is going to the same place on each occasion, but many childminders are also able to offer continuity. I have minded children from being a few months old and all the way through until secondary school. Two of my current families have been with me for over 10 years, and babies/toddlers I have now should still be here in several years time.

You are a rare and unusual creature ThePrisoner...wish you lived near me

My ex-childminder didn't want to continue with the care for my family as she wanted to maximise her income and take on other children....business came first for her she said....it was an awful time and I am using a nursery from then on