Am I being unreasonable ?

[ScotsBird]

I am really not sure if I am being unreasonable or not ... on Friday past I bumped into my childminder in the park and she mentioned to me that on Wednesday of this week she had to go to dd1's parents' evening. Apparently she wants to see all of her teachers, and what with getting ready, picking up dd2 from school and getting a cab to dd1's school she wanted me to pick up dd at 2pm. As I run courses at work I am obviously unable to up and leave on days when I am teaching so I mentioned that I couldnt do it, but would see if dh could - he cannot. I phoned her this morning adn she says that she can get one of the other minders to take my dd for the afternoon, but that she will now be over her numbers so will not be insured.

I feel a bit annoyed that a) my childminder didnt let me know about this until 5 days before (at a chance meeting) and b) that she seemed annoyed when I told her that neither dh or I culd pick dd up as early as 2pm.

Am I being unreasonable ?? Please put my mind at rest !!

Uwila, from a parents point of view, would you be willing to pay bank holidays even if you only used the c/m say 2 days a week and the BH fell on one of those days?

My mum works at Tescos on Tues & Wed she gets a proportion of her bank holidays.

I'm thinking of charging in that way.

ie.child attend on Mon & Fri for 3 hrs so on a B/H pays 2/5th of the going rate. (in my case 2/5th of £9 - £3.60) but in a holiday would that be 2/5th of the holiday rate?? (8hrs = £24 so 2/5th = £9.60?)

Hmm - very complicated

I'll have to answer hypothetically because I never have and never will work part time. But, yes I suppose that's fair that is I use her on Tuesday and Friday and the bank holiday falls on Friday, then I would still pay. However, I also used to use her for about 11 hours per day (this long day was of course discussed and agreed before we signed the contract) and we agreed that we would standardise all bank holidays at a normal working 8 hour day.

In general, I would say that paying a business for a day they don't actually work would go against my principals. But, when I was shopping for a childminder I found this to be common practice so I just accepted it as the way the market works. And, as I said earlier she was great about always finding her own cover. She was always very tolerant about me being late (this was discussed and agreed before the contract was signed so I didn't just not show up without warning). So, I didn't really mind mind the bank holidays so much.

Actually, typing all of this has reminded me how we miss her. I must giver her call sometime so DD can get together with her and her kids.

SSD, further to that...

Maybe if I was using the CM just on Mondays (and bank Holidays tend to fall on Mondays, I might feel I was paying an unfair share of your holiday. Maybe it would be fair if someone who uses a childminder only on Monday pay say half of the bank holiday...

As a CM I would think it was unfair to give you such short notice, personally. And if I had only had that much notice, I would have rung you ASAP. I am a mum first, yes. But a business second, and she really should have covered that, knowing she had your dd.

Oh no ... I didn;t mean to sound as though I was launching an assault on my own childminder (or childminders in general) ... I am absolutely aware that my minder is a mum first and foremost and the only issue I had was the very short notice. Basically if I had not met her on Friday I think she would probably have only let me know about this tomorrow when dd is next with her.

BadHair, if dd is ill (which she was last week with impetigo) I am happy to take carers leave from work, but that is only really meant to be available as an emergency measure, which I didn't really think this was.

I really appreciate my minder and the care she gives to dd, and I have a great relationship with her, with lots of come-and-go on both sides so I wouldnt consider pulling dd from her care at all, but I think in this instance I will maybe say that I felt pushed into a corner a little bit and ask for as much notice if a situation like this arises again.

THanks for the replies - they have given me a great all-round perspective!

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. If my CM cant look after my DD and I cant find someone else appropriate then I have to take the day off and dont get paid for it either.

My DD (2yrs old) goes to a CM who I have made a contract with which states various different notive times and rates of pay whether she is there or not.

Said CM wanted to go and see her son for the day in London but gave me two weeks notice (stated in our contract) and was embarrassed about asking if I would mind. I said that was fine as everyone is entitled to be with their own family and she arranged everything for my DD to go to another CM's for the day. She even took DD round to see other CM and to get her used to the place before she went. I did not pay her, but the other CM instead.

I was under the impression that contracts were made for piece of mind between parent and CM and insurance, etc. Also, I wasnt aware that CM's were allowed to look after more than their numbers for insurance reasons?

On another note....
I have been to many CM's to view their places before considering leaving my DD with them and can quite honestly say I have been appalled and disgusted that authorities give these people the go ahead to look after children in their homes. I went to one womens house that stank of smoke and the place was covered in cat hair as she was breeding cats in her living room! Don't get me wrong, we have 3 cats of our own and my DD loves them, but this place was rancid! I thought that CM's had a check done on their homes to see if they are safe and appropriate to have children in?? And how often are they checked?
Could someone answer that for me?

Thanks for your reply Uwila.

I work for one family Mondays and Wednesdays only and I don't get paid for the BH if it falls on a Monday.But I'm sure the parents do......

My problem is that I don't want to upset anyone and I tend to do the contract more in their favour than in mine!

You sound very business minded and fair Uwila.What "business" advice would you give a part-time childminder who feels she is hopeless at sticking up for herself?

SSD. to be honest, I think that you should review your contract, and have these conversations before you take on the job. It would probabbly be a good idea to revise your contract now for future clients. If you want to CAT me, I'd be glad to look at contract and tell you where I think it could be fairly revised.

Do you work part time because you choose to? Or do you live in area where there are not a lot of children? Or perhaps there are loads of other childminders?

The childminder we used I am sure makes more money than I do. I remember when she went on holiday to the Maldives, and thought "Oh my, that must be nice. Do I pay you too much?". It is, however, entirely possible that she just budgets her money better than I do.

As for the children you already look after, you could perhapps revise the arrangement, but it is a much stickier issue when they already come to you. You would probably need to give a lot of notice. Like say that your rates are going up in two months and outline what they will be. However, as you only look after one family, this approach runs the risk of turning away your only source of income.

Anyway, if you CAT me, I'll be glad to offer my opinion.

I've probably totally hijacked the topic of this thread now... sorry.

Looneylaura - childminders get checked once a year. The Gov wants to change that to once every 2 (or even 3) years.

I think most good childminders would prefer to be check more often. It adds to our "status" imo

BTW a network childminder gets checked every 6-8 weeks. I'm a network childminder and feel confident that "best practice" occurs in my house and that any problems or mistakes or 'sloopy' practices I fall into can be picked up quickly and sorted almost immediatley.

I always gave my parents as much notice as I could but as I said before somtimes I didn't get much notice. This is not a problem that is solely childminders but also affects nurseries and nannies. Nurseries have to close sometimes (rarely I agree) because of unforeseen circumstances and they are not in the position of offering alternative childcare. Generally speaking I agree with the person that says this should be discussed when signing a contract (I always discussed this at this point). Maybe thats why I've never got into this situation with a parent. My daughters school are always late when confirming parents meetings and as its important I have to go. I have to find childcare and my children are not allowed to attend. This is inconvience but thats the way it is. (I don't have family and rely on friends to help me out).

I really feel that yes she didn't give you much notice however I would just say to her thank you for telling me but could you give me a bit more time to organise ourselves.

One last point I am a member of the National Childmindings Assiciation Childminding Network this means I am inspected by NCMA every 6 weeks. This is voluntary but it means I have support from them and also I can take the Childcare Vouchers that nurseries take. Its a bit of a pain to wait in for somebody every 6 weeks but not a big problem. I have been inspected by social services an now OFSTED and to my mind not really worth a great deal. NCMA's checks were better and more thorough.

I am just wondering what different arrangements you would have been made if you had had:

1 week

2 weeks

3 weeks

etc?

I wish my mindees parents would always give notice

She works shifts and changes them and then tells me rather than asking if I can work before changing them.

It doesn't really matter to me really as I only have 1 mindee but sometimes I am doing something else.

But if I had more mindees I would not be able to be flexible at all as may go over numbers.

The reason this family cannot go to a nursery is because nurseries do not offer flexibility.

I really enjoy working with this family I was just pointing out that it goes both ways. Also I really enjoy part time as I have more time for mumsnet

Kanga, I would think that last minute schedule changes would be a rather unfair expectation (unless you agreed to it before taking these kids). I can appreciate if her job is unpredicatable. But I would think that at least one weeks prior notice would be possible. ALthough, I don;t know where she works. Perhaps her employer is not the reasonable.

But, that would drive me bonker. Last minute plans/changes make me really mad. I don;t stand for it from anyone -- ask my DH. If he waits 'til Friday to ask me what I want to do on Friday, I won't be doing anything with him.

She decides to change shifts rather than where she works

This is because it is more convienent for her to work mornings

I knew that she worked shifts and they are worked out months in advance but then she tells me that she has changed a late shift to an early one with one of her friends.

Like I said 99.999999% of the time it doesn't make any difference to me but sometimes it does.

I wanted just to make the point that it is not just childinders who want to change things at short notice.

BTW I would not be able to take mindee to parents evening as children are not allowed to go. Also would not have been able to concentrate if was distracted by mindee.

Also if more notice had been given by Scotsbird's CM would it have made it alot easier? Would you or DH been able to change work etc.?

What time do they have parent's evenings? 2pm sounds very early. DS still at nursery but when I was at school I'm sure they were at about 6.30 pm at the very latest.

Thanks for your advice, Uwila. I'll CAT you next time I'm taking on a new mindee re the contract - if that's okay!

I agree with kangamummy, sometimes parents don't give any notice but they'd expect a lot of notice in return. I think the problem someone in my position has thAT CHILDMINDS PART-TIME IS THAT THE PARENTS DON'T SEE IT AS a real job (even if they work part-time too).They forget you have a family and work commitments too.

BTW sorry for the above capitals!!!The capslock was on!!!

Thanks KatieMac

I think the Gov would be crazy to extend the times bewteen checkups. Afterall, we are talking about the safetey of young vunerable children.

I think I would be put off using a childminder if she hadnt been checked in a while.

Absolutely Looneylaura - that's why so many childminders want to be network Childminders.

But if you live in the wrong area - you just can't be one. It's funded by Surestart and they are in 'deprived' areas.

I agree about the lack of checks - it's wicked not to inspect childminders at least once a year.

I was under the impression that if you had an excellent inspection they were going to extend the time

That way they could concentrate on the ones that were not very good

I got the top rating so therefore would have a longer time before the next one

I personally think that is the right way for the inspectors to work
If they are worried about a childminder or nursery they should have the time to make repeated inspections

I only work part time and also for 8 months a year and have had top ratings each inspection so it isn't worth them keep coming back here really is it?

Rather than someone they had given a rating lower or that a parent had raised some concern over.

Which would you think was better to spend their time on?

KMc have you been asked to be on councils books?

I was asked to keep places open for them to use

They pay a retainer then i they use you they then pay ormal fees?

I didn't want to do it but sounds a good idea

I am not sure if you have to wait until you have minded for several years

Perhaps ask about it

Am sure you will have got the right standard grading thingy

I'm on the social services list (so SS can use me) - but we don't get a retainer round here
But I feel once a year is the min that childminders should be inspected and that more often if there are problems.

Think about it a childminder is (normally) alone with children, (often) isolated, (maybe) a recent mum, (potentially) vunerable. If nothing else her(his) mental state needs monitering.......

But seriously I could have an inspection today, tomorrow I could get a new partner - with a large dog, a need for a swimming pool or pond, he might smoke or do drugs, have a grown up son - who had been arrested for flashing at children, anything really.

I still think a minimum of once a year is essential. (maybe I'm insecure?)

The SS thing here is a new thing so hopefully it may change in norfolk

The retainer thing wasn't very much per hour

The inspection thing I suppose is true about new boyfriend etc.

My personal circumstances have been static all the time

Actually had a labrador dog when I started {she has since died}

Perhaps it could be just a quick check up or filling in a form

I personnally would rather they spent their time with others who either need their help or need careful supervision because of concerns of inspectors or families

The thing I do not agree with with inspections is they have never checked my car or car seats

Have they ever inspected yours to check they are in securely?

Or even that you have enough seats for numbers of children?

Shall we see what other C/Mers think??

I may just be insecure (as I mentioned)

I'll start up a thread - could you do a link to this one.

I'll make it quite general........

Crossed posts....agree about car seats should check MOT certs and Ins as well.