Can I change my mind about nanny’s DD?

[Namechange87654321]

When I was recruiting my nanny, I didn’t have many to choose from - actually she was the only candidate over a number of months of adverts!

We discussed arrangements over text when we were agreeing things and she did ask me if she could bring her two year old DD in the afternoons. I agreed, even though I was reluctant, as I didn’t want to lose my only candidate.

In reality the toddler doesn’t come every day - it’s more like twice a week, but not on predictable days.

However, it’s really not working for me. The house isn’t set up for toddlers; nothing is toddler proof. It’s noisy when I’m trying to work from home. Stuff is getting moved/messed up and little things bug me, like having to take the spare car seat out of my car whenever I need the last row of seats down (which is almost every weekend - and yes I have asked nanny to take the car seat out every Friday night, but it never happens). Also said toddler has had a rotten stinking cold the last two weeks and I’m now ill (thankfully none of the kids are yet).

Sometimes I have to step out of my study and parent the toddler when my nanny is doing other stuff and hasn’t noticed; eg she’s emptied all the cups out of the kitchen cupboard and is sucking them all one by one and putting them back in the cupboard again, or holding the cat flap open and letting cold air into the house, or pulling all the stuff out of one of the kids’ wardrobes. Or I end up cleaning up toddler-related mess on the kitchen table/tidying toys away in the evenings.

I’m a completely single parent and it’s all the little things adding up and making me feel stressed, but my biggest issue is the noise when I’m trying to work from home (my kids are much older and come home from school and get on with stuff quietly),

It’s not written into her contract that she can bring her DD with her. However, I’m aware that it was agreed in writing, albeit over text. Do you think I have a leg to stand on if I say it’s not working for me any more and to make alternative arrangements? To complicate matters further, my nanny has recently announced her pregnancy, which I know makes changing any working conditions slightly dodgy.

Well yes, you could change it. But she'll probably leave. Are you okay with that as a result?

Is there anything you can do to make the role more attractive to other candidates in terms of pay, hours etc?

What do you think her options are??

I suppose theoretically she could try to go down the constructive dismissal route, but do you think it would occur to her though? You could try the ACAS helpline for advice,

Technically you can give her 4 weeks notice of the change in working conditions but honestly she'll probably just leave. It's not like she didn't tell you she needed to bring him, you agreed to it.

What age child or children is she looking after for you?

if yours are older and you’re not actually paying her for full day care then you may have to compromise a bit :/ it’s not a very attractive job proposition.
If on the other hand you are paying her like £35k for full day care then I think the situation is a bit different.

You risk a costly pregnancy discrimination claim against you if you object now. Call ACAS or EASS for advice but she is now in the ‘protected period’ as defined under the Equality Act (2010).

Constructive Dismissal is when there is a fundamental breach of contract on the part of the employer, c.3% of claims succeed… nanny would need to resign… if that happens could be constructive dismissal for a reason that is automatically unfair…the risk to OP is a pregnancy discrimination claim at present. OP should get advice before doing anything to protect her position.

Thanks. There’s not much more I can do to make the role more attractive to be honest; I’m already paying way over the market rate around here, plus 40 days of paid annual leave. She’s costing me more than I earn (my ex is paying the bill), but I’m trying to think long term about my pension and career prospects.

To be honest if she left it wouldn’t be the end of the world; I’d have to take some unpaid leave from work while I made alternative arrangements (which I am working on anyway ahead of her maternity leave), but overall financially I’d be better off during that period.

It’s more that I don’t want to risk constructive dismissal.

Well, to make more use of the grandparents/partner, or to take up the full 15 hours of free nursery (at present this isn’t being used to the fullest extent).

You need to be careful about the reasons you give for dismissal I had a similar situation, hired a part time nanny (afternoons only) she came highly recommended but needed to bring her 2yo with her, which I agreed as mine were older and didn't need close supervision but like you've found it was a NIGHTMARE. Her child was soooooo boisterous and it felt like she was basically just looking after her child in my house. My kids had to watch hers while she made their snacks and she didn't have time to do the little extras like wash up snack plates or help mine with homework so I had to do things we'd discussed her doing, when I got home from work, which defeated paying the high cost of a nanny in the first place.

I don't know what I'd expected tbh as I've had toddlers, I think we all had a rose tinted idea of how it would work but it was just stressful for everyone and I think she was relieved when we called time. My reason was no longer needed as the kids wanted to go to after school club but it was full, then spaces opened up on the waiting list. No redundancy was due because of length of service but I paid her 2 months, she worked 1 month notice and I took unpaid leave to cover the other month, as a gesture of goodwill.

I'd sit down with her and have a conversation about these points. Explain that as you wfh it's disruptive and you agreed to have the toddler on the grounds that it wouldn't impact but it has been. Be factual and cite the examples you've used here rather than general terms.
Explain that you no longer are comfortable in having the toddler around and that she will need to make alternative arrangements for the toddler.
Just focus on that and do not mention or discuss the pregnancy.
Then just leave it with her to come back to you. If she says that's unfair or something, then you simply say that the presence of the toddler was by agreement but this is not working for you and you do not wish to be further impacted. Give her a reasonable period of time to sort out alternative arrangements.
Do not try to come up with solutions just leave it to her. If she says then she can't work then just say you are happy for her to continue working but the presence of the toddler is affecting your work and it can't continue unfortunately.

I wouldn't put up with that.

Suggest a playpen if you can't face telling her but personally I would say that it's not working and the toddler noise and mess is distracting.

Like anyone doing a job, they shouldn't be bringing their toddler to work.

I absolutely would not have allowed this.

It's a bit different to any other job, because NWOC (nanny with own child) is a type of nannying, but normally this has a lower hourly rate to recognise the lack of 'sole focus'.

OP, does she know you are unhappy? Supervising harder to reduce disruption to you, remembering the car seat and leaving herself time to tidy at the end of the day should absolutely get done.

I think you need a conversation with the nanny where you explain that if she wants to keep bringing the toddler to work she needs to:

• keep toddler quiet as you are working from home;
• closely supervise the toddler so that toddler does not cause mess and disruption within your home. Give the examples that you mentioned here as examples when you had to step in and help out;
• ensure that looking after toddler does not affect her job duties;
• ensure that neither she nor her child are causing mess that you need to tidy away;
• remember to remove the toddler car seat from your car each Friday;
• explain that if she can't do this she will need to stop bringing the toddler to work as caring for her toddler interfering with her job duties.

I'd then follow that up with an email to confirm the discussion.

She may well decide to find another job, but it sounds like that won't bother you.

Constructive Dismissal a hard head of claim to win, also be no basic award. Your main risk is a discrimination claim potentially. This can be potentially very costly indeed. Don’t risk it. Get advice before acting.

Yes you probably can, and I appreciate you aren't used to toddlers yet but the tone of your post about a small child sounds disturbing so hopefully you are not behaving badly to the child. Also, in a year or two, when yours becomes a toddler you might develop some more sympathy to the woman. you probably didn't know what you were getting into.

I’d start by making it clear to her that you agreed to have her child there but you don’t expect to be moving car seats , clearing up any toddler related mess or indeed see the child emptying out your cupboards .

How small is your child?
You need to speak to her and be very clear about what you aren’t happy with and give her a proper chance to change it. If it makes her life harder she will bring her DD less

It's up to you , if course. But you should expect her to hand in her notice.

I think OP has an after school nanny, she has talked about her children coming home
and getting on quietly with stuff,

Always good to have a clause saying review having own child every 3mths

im surprised you didn’t have many nannies

it’s an employers market out there at the moment

how old are your kids

what days /hours does she do

plus pay

nwoc imo should be paid a little less then Going rate as

nanny doesn’t give 100% to your children
doesnt have childcare to pay
why else use a nwoc if no benefit

yes she should tidy up /look after toddler and mess and remove car seats and make sure quiet

can you have set days so you know there for 2

speak to her about the above issues and say will have a review in a month

if she is lreg she is unlikely to come back as you won’t allow /want 2 kids

You need to be very factual about what you expect and why. Also though, you say your children come home and play quietly? Why do you need a nanny? Is she doing what you expected for your children? Like it seems rather strange that your two have a nanny in your home while you are there? Could she take them to her home and you pick them up from there maybe? I mean you are using a nanny with older children while you are there and the nanny brings her young child. She probably wouldn't do the job if she couldn't bring her child...! Are you ok with loosing the nanny?

I don’t think you risk a claim of constructive dismissal if, when she asked if she could bring her kid with her, it was under the understanding that she would carry out her nannying role as normal, wirh minimal disruption. You can argue that the reality is very different and you find having her kid in your house disruptive. In order for her to do her nannying job you are required to intrerupt your work to stop her kid from turning your house upside down. And, as long as you’re only asking her to stop bringing her kid to work, and you’re not actually sacking her, you shouldn’t worry about her claiming discrimination because of pregnancy.

did she ask to bring her child to work with her when you interviewed her? If she asked after her interview, this suggests that this was her plan all along but wanted to secure the job first so it would make it difficult for you to say no when she later brought up the kid.

@Namechange87654321 has had toddlers and in no way does she sound like she's being unkind to the child.

I’d just ride it out but get her to remove the car seat etc
Her child getting a cold isn’t her fault, that could be yours another time!
What isn’t right is you needing to stop working to do stuff. I did this job years ago with my old child and never had a parent need to do that. But as a nanny, parents working from home can be a nightmare and you can’t expect a quiet house. It’s their work place too and they shouldn’t be worried about some noise. Can you go to a. Cafe or library etc? Then she will also be able to look after her child knowing you aren’t there to step in.