Rates of Pay - central London nanny - please help!

[Holly29]

Am about to offer my first nanny job, but what is a reasonable net salary? I have one 5 month old, I live in central London, hours would be 8am to 6pm - 5 days a week. just nursery duties. The nanny we like currently gets £500 net which seems extortionate...!
please do tell...

I used to work in West London, earned the same as I do now, except I was live in then and now I live out. And I am abroad. But now I work 4 days a week, and go to school the fifth day as I am training to be a nurse. So I am seriously skint by the time I have paid for rent and then college. But I have fabulous employers and am v v v v happy with my life so I am not tempted (much LOL) by the high salaries...

I live zone 2/3 borders and pay £9 net/h. When I was recruiting I found that foreign nannies with 2-3 years experience were asking for £7-8 net. In late 2007 an agency told me that experienced nannies were looking for £9-£10 net/h.

I think that £30-40k for an experienced nanny is not unreasonable, given that the hours are usually long, there are no proper breaks for lunch, and also jobs presumably usually only last for 2-3 years before you face redundancy as a natural course of events. My nanny also has the challenge of taking/picking up two small children to school on time every day, which is no easy deadline to meet. She also has a sort of budget, and regular appraisals/scrutiny by me + DH...

I couldn't do her job, which is why I am happy to pay her salary, but if you feel that it is an easy job, I guess it seems too much.

I think 30-40 is a very good salary, no matter what job you do. Where I work, the cream (and I'm talking firsts/upper seconds from very good unis) can expect to earn that after at least 5 years work. They often work very, very long hours (40-50 hour weeks are not uncommon in the busy season), are studying in their spare time (a requisite for progressing), have to pay for travel to work, buy suits/tights/heels/haircuts, and have demanding goals which they have to achieve or they're out.

You don't have any of that if you're a nanny.

going rate for a qualified professional and experienced nanny in central london is £8 per hour net (works out about £10 gross)

I think nannying is not easy, and sometimes it's not even enjoyable. The hours are much longer than most other jobs, the responsibility level is higher (after all, the safety and wellbeing and "edutainment" of someone else's precious offspring is in our hands) , there are no lunch breaks or office banter to relieve the pressure. So in that respect yes we nannies do deserve our pay.

I do find it frustrating feeling like I have to justify my salary. No other professions have to explain why they should get the pay they do. And no other professions have such an issue getting their employers to pay taxes and NI.

^I think 30-40 is a very good salary, no matter what job you do. Where I work, the cream (and I'm talking firsts/upper seconds from very good unis) can expect to earn that after at least 5 years work. They often work very, very long hours (40-50 hour weeks are not uncommon in the busy season), are studying in their spare time (a requisite for progressing), have to pay for travel to work, buy suits/tights/heels/haircuts, and have demanding goals which they have to achieve or they're out.

You don't have any of that if you're a nanny.^

while I am not going to despute that 30-40 is a dammed good salary, I have been a nanny for nearly 8 years now and I've found it very hard to get near that salary. thats if I can even find an employer that deems me worthy enough to pay my tax/NI in the first place. but I'm happy with charging £8ph nett as although I have quite a bit of experience, I'm not qualified

I am currently about embark upon a full time job (55+ hours per week, every week - every season is busy season when you're a nanny) and also undertake an NVQ3 in childcare in my spare (!!) time

I will admit that I have the perks of a one bedroom flat inculded in my job, but if I was live out are you suggesting that I don't have to pay for the things you mention??

as for demanding goals that have to be achived, I am in charge of someones life, everyday... I don't feel that there is a challenge higher

so while I am sure nannying looks like something us girls do to earn a quick buck, I assure you it isn't.. but I wouldn't change it for the world.

Holly29 - I have been recently been paying £400 per week for 4 days 8 - 6.30, 2 children (1 + 3), also in Islington. I thought that I was paying a bit over the odds because I needed 4 days so it's difficult for a nanny to find work for the fifth day. If you like her I would offer a bit less, maybe £470, and see what she says.

I agree, missiesparkles.

mananny, the point is no other profession has their tax and NI paid out of their employer's taxed income. For all other employments, salaries are paid out of pre-tax income so what grates on me is paying tax on my own salary then paying my nanny's employer NICS out of taxed salary. It's paying tax twice on the same sum which doesn't happen in most other employments.

It may interest you to know that if you employ a chauffeur, you can pay their salary out of pre tax income

My marginal rate of tax is therefore higher than almost anyone else's - even the super rich. Certainly higher than non-doms

sprogger, I do think you make an interesting point. I wonder why anyone in London would choose to work in social care when with very few qualifications they could earn a much better salary as a nanny. I suspect it's mostly nicer work as well.

I should add that my nanny is lovely and I have no problems at all with paying her what I do. But it's a dilemma for public policy in the future - we need to pay our carers better.

Sprogger it isn't just central London nannies that are on good money

I live in Herts and I too am on a good amount. I am self employed though so I charge gross rather than net as most nannies do.

I think that you will find that good nannies expect a good salary and they know they will get it as very good nannies seem to be in short supply.

I used to earn £500 net in South East London 4.5 years ago.
£375 when I was living in.
But I know I was paid very well

It is indeed market forces, like you said a nanny will only get paid what the family can afford. So rich families can offer higher pay, much of the time. I say much of the time as I once interviewed with a well known family who after telling the agency they would pay a v high negotiable salary, told me the highest they would pay would be 250 per week for a live in 66 hr/week nanny. Their reasoning was it was v expensive to include nanny on their 12 weeks a year holidays to private resorts in the Bahamas etc so nanny should contribute through her salary. So even rich families have budget issues

As for the tax/ni situation, I do realize parents are taxed twice but its not the nanny's responsibilty to sacrifice her own tax/ni paying status. Its a hard situation as we are entitled to have everything paid above board as any other employee would by law. The gov really need to introduce tax breaks for families with nannies, above and beyond the voucher scheme.

We pay our current nanny (and our last one as well), £8ph plus tax and NI. When we were interviewing for the most recent one (January this year), we came across rates varying from £8 to £12 ph (!!!!), depending upon experience to a certain extent, but some I think were just taking the piss. I think that £500/week net is a LOT, but it depends what you are getting for that. Some nannies are real child development experts/gurus, and won't wash a coffee cup, and others (perhaps like Eleusis's?) keep the house looking lovely, muck in on laundry etc, and do a good job of keeping the little one(s) safe, happy, fed, clean and amused. Ours have been in the latter category, and it suits us fine. Friends of ours are paying £11.50ph for a british nanny who is fab w child development, but won't help in the house beyond the absolute minimum. Suits them.

Also, for a single 5 month old, I do think their job is definitely cushier and more straightforward than racing around to the schedules of say a stroppy toddler and a needy infant. Should have plenty of infant napping time to do little household jobs, would definitely find out what else she is prepared to do to help out during these hours.....

(Our nanny is live out)

Its like paying anyone for anything as an employer isn't it?

We have a great nanny who I would willingly pay more, if we could afford it (in terms of bonuses etc). She works hard, the children love her and compared to the other nannies we've had in the past, is as rare as gold dust.

But I do regret the good pay I feel I wasted on the fat lazy nanny who neglected my newborn son and announced to me that she would "not cuddle him, just because he wanted that" (he was 2 wks old).

so, you win some,, you lose some.

"fat lazy nanny"

Fat people deserve to be paid you know. Lazy people, maybe not, but fat does not equal useless

I think the key word was actually "lazy".

margoandjerry - you wrote "It may interest you to know that if you employ a chauffeur, you can pay their salary out of pre tax income".
Yes, I'm very interested, do please tell more, plus if possible provide links to relevant legislation and/or specific documents on HMRC website. I'm interested because as far as I'm aware (and I'm always interested to learn new things), that a chauffeur is a domestic servant, so is the same as a nanny in that sense. Thus if a chauffeur is not a domestic servant, I am interested to find out what they are - and thus try to establish why a nanny is a domestic servant and a chauffeur is something different.

I'd love to know too Nick, as until I moved abroad, I always had to explain to parents that yes they were responsible for my taxes and NI, and no I couldn't be self employed. So if a chauffeur, who provides a service to a private family, can be paid from pre-tax income, it seems weird that a nanny, who also provides a service to a private family is paid differently. Confusing and unfair to say the least.

Why aren't nannies ever self-employed? Just wondering if there's some legal reason?