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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Original poster

CM with a friend. Advice please.

26 replies

princessmel · 21/02/2008 10:55

Me again

I am in the same position as my friend.

We are both NNEB quailifed and have done a CM course . We both have children and need to earn some money.
We feel that we'd like to CM together. In my house. I have a playroom and she doesn't is the main reasons for that.

Does this work?

I remember at the CM course that it was possible to work with an 'assistant'.

Does anyone here do this?

I know we'd have to split the money etc. What else should we think about?

Also we don't think it would work in the school holidays as just with our own kids we have a total of 5.

M

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frannikin · 21/02/2008 11:19

I think, but I'm not sure, that 2 CMs can work from the same premises and that may increase the number of children you can have (so 2 under 1 etc) but that depends on floor-space.

I think KatyMac works with a team of CMs...

Original poster
princessmel · 21/02/2008 11:25

Ok, thanks for that

OP posts:
ROSEgarden · 21/02/2008 11:55

yes you can both be cm's working from same house, same as some couples both cm, Katy and her dh do...she'll be along, if not put a shout out for her on here

Original poster
princessmel · 21/02/2008 12:08

I'm taking dd swimming now. Will look later. Thanks

OP posts:
nannynick · 21/02/2008 15:01

Main issue will be money. Your friend would need to be your employee, or possibly you may find a way of splitting all the bills somehow. KatyMac is best person to ask about this, she's got lots of experience with employing other childminders/assistants.

ayla99 · 21/02/2008 15:58

You need to decide if you will be equal partners or if one of you will be assistant to the other.

Working separately in your own homes you are likely to be able to care for up to 6 under 8s each. I know a group of 4 who can only have 8 under eights altogether. You'll need to check with Ofsted how many children you can care for when both together. You'll need to decide if you will close if either one of you is sick (so she won't earn if you are sick & vice versa) or if one of you is sick if the other will provide care for some of the children.

Working separately in your own homes you can each claim the tax allowances for your gas/electric/council tax & water. Working together, only the home-owner can claim. You can both claim the allowance for wear and tear which is a percentage of income but you'll have to agree how to allocate this as obviously only one of you can claim on each £ received.

Lots to think about, far too complicated for me! Katy will know what to advise you!

ayla99 · 21/02/2008 15:58

You need to decide if you will be equal partners or if one of you will be assistant to the other.

Working separately in your own homes you are likely to be able to care for up to 6 under 8s each. I know a group of 4 who can only have 8 under eights altogether. You'll need to check with Ofsted how many children you can care for when both together. You'll need to decide if you will close if either one of you is sick (so she won't earn if you are sick & vice versa) or if one of you is sick if the other will provide care for some of the children.

Working separately in your own homes you can each claim the tax allowances for your gas/electric/council tax & water. Working together, only the home-owner can claim. You can both claim the allowance for wear and tear which is a percentage of income but you'll have to agree how to allocate this as obviously only one of you can claim on each £ received.

Lots to think about, far too complicated for me! Katy will know what to advise you!

AskABusyPerson · 21/02/2008 17:46

Definitely ask Katymac, she was very helpful when my sister and I thought of joining forces to cm together! As Nannynick says you'll be the employer so there will be contract, job desc, tax, ni etc to do. Start another thread asking for advice on employing assistants - Katymac should see that and hopefully be able to help!

bonkerz · 21/02/2008 17:50

BUMP FOR YOU!

Original poster
princessmel · 21/02/2008 18:20

Thanks, she's coming over later so I'll show her this.

TBH it sounds frightening!!

OP posts:
KatyMac · 21/02/2008 18:24

OK - some scenarios to consider

Say you each have 3 children & 2 leave & they are 'yours' so you only have one child & your friend has 3 - does she get paid more than you

Or 3 are off sick - 1 of yours & 2 of hers - who gets a day off

Or you are sick but sjhe can work - which parents do you ask not to come in

You can work together (perhaps as a partnership) or you can employ her (think about employers liability insurance & employers NI contributions & PAYE)

It's not straight forward

nannynick · 21/02/2008 18:34

I know some childminders who are good friends, but they don't childmind together. That doesn't mean they aren't with each other a lot though. Many things are done together:
Walks in the local woods / park.
Going to toddler group.
Going to indoor play.
Going to science centre.
They also will help each other out at times of need, such as taking a child to school/nursery (with parents consent of course).

So you could both childmind in your own right, have your own clients, but combine for many activities.

KatyMac · 21/02/2008 18:35

Which would be easier

cat64 · 21/02/2008 19:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

bonkerz · 21/02/2008 19:19

when i was childminding (gave up in august but childminded from Aug 04) I set up a group of 4 childminders and we worked together to produce paperwork, activities etc. We met up every day and if one of us was poorly we would meet at each others houses and care for all the children together, It was like working together but we were each registered at our own properties. We also acted as emergency childminders for each other and this meant appointments etc could be organised easily and parents of mindees loved the arrangement.

Original poster
princessmel · 21/02/2008 19:55

Thanks everyone.

Yes I can see how it could get complicated.

I'd prefer not to employ her but for us to be equal.

Do we each 'have' our own mindees then? would they not be a jointly minded?

Re the sick thing, We'd have to think about that. I don't know how it would work if her own children were ill. Well it wouldn't. We'd have to cancel I suppose.

I know we could do it in our own houses and get together but I just don't know how likely that would be. She's a drive away only a short one but it would still be car trips and then back for lunch etc. Plus younger ones may want to nap etc.

We just both need and want to do something but we dont know what!

OP posts:
KatyMac · 21/02/2008 19:59

If you are equal one or other of you has to sign the contracts - or you have 2 sets of cpntrtacts for each parent (don't see them going for that)

What happens if there are only enough children for one of you

How are you going to do your accounts if they are jointly minded?

How about paying for you electric & gas? council tax & water?

Original poster
princessmel · 21/02/2008 20:04

Ok, she's here

We'd do one contract and only one of us would sign.

The persons house who we are working in would have a slightly higher amount to cover gas/electric etc.

I'm guessing this btw!!

OP posts:
KatyMac · 21/02/2008 20:07

I think on the HMRC website there is a thing about beng employed and being self employed

I think (Tho' I could be wrong) that your friend would be employed

The gas/electric/council tax & water rates are a standard set amount throught NCMA - I don't think you can muck about with it

KatyMac · 21/02/2008 20:08

look here

nannynick · 21/02/2008 20:12

A husband wife team share the household bills, thus can work together. Your friend would not be resident at the property, so I can't see how it would work. I think you would have to employ them to work with you... can't see a way round that.

nannynick · 21/02/2008 20:14

How many children are you each currently registered to care for by Ofsted?
Is your home big, as if not, you may not be able to care for very many children - which will then make it non-viable financially.
What are childminding rates in your area? Are rates sufficient to cover the wages of an employee?

KatyMac · 21/02/2008 20:14

Nick - I don't think it would work without an employee/employer relationship - even with that it's really hard

KatyMac · 21/02/2008 20:16

I forgot that Nick

There is a certain amount of space needed per age of child

I think OFSTED use 3.5 sqm of clear floor space per child under 5 (in a residential setting they use averages round here)

Plus 2.5sqm for over 5's

BTW that is space without furniture

nannynick · 21/02/2008 20:17

Agreed... friend needs to be the employee - and may need also need to be on a zero hour contract, so only paid on an as-per-needed basis. As if only caring for 1 or 2 children, friend won't be needed!