Securing a place for second DC

[Teapleasemilknosugar]

So my toddler is in a nursery for 2 days a week. Loves it there, has adored going and been totally happy attending since 11m (now 2.5yrs).

Baby number 2 is arriving imminently. I am taking a year for Mat Leave and the toddler is still going to continue nursery during that time.

I've approached the nursery for a space for baby number 2 from Easter 2024, happy to pay a deposit now to secure the place etc, so both DC would then attend same nursery on the same days when I go back to work. They have said they only guarantee spaces for September this year and can't guarantee a space from Easter 2024 (even if we were to pay the deposit).

How do others handle this situation? Is it the same in other nurseries too? It's a private nursery, year round, not attached to a school or restricted to term times.

Is our only option to find a new nursery setting for both DC?

This is what I was expecting and hoping for. This is what I understood would be the situation from all my friends who have had kids! Guess I'm unlucky. 😔

This is what I don't understand. How do the nurseries who operate in this way make it work? If one child starts in September at 9 months and another starts at the same time at 12 months surely they don't move on to the next room at the same time?

I mean I totally understand them being less likely to have space in a preschool room as a 3 year old will be in there for longer and less likely to leave until they start school but the babies not having any space until September makes no sense.

They probably just move rooms in September rather than strictly on age. It's poor practice to settle a baby into one room at 9 months and move again a few months later anyway!

So say they get 9 babies aged between 6 and 12 months start in the baby room in September, then in a year's time they move them all aged 18 months to 2 into the toddler room plus some extras probably start at that age as the ratio drops for over 2s.

You'd think so given how it seems our nursery operates. But my toddler started at 11m, then when they moved up a room it definitely wasn't September!

But what happens if 2 or 3 of those 9 babies move to a different setting before they move up and they are replaced by babies much younger e.g they leave at 15 months and are replaced by 2 babies who are 9 months old? Or if you want your 18 month old to spend longer in the baby room as she's only just started walking. It seems so unusual to me that a nursery would move the whole room up at the same time.

I've got 2 kids and have used a combination of childminders and a nursery (attached to the school).

My childminder was very flexible but I reserved my space literally as soon as I knew I was pregnant and paid the £250 deposit and I did the same with my second child. My children both started mid year (not September).

Both children (when they turned 3) then started doing some sessions at the nursery (which is attached to their school) The main intake is September but they say on all their paperwork if they fill up in the September there won't be a January or Easter intake (children can only start there the term after their 3rd birthday) and places after the September intake are limited, and children already in the nursery each term the parents are written to and existing children get priority on which sessions they want to book incase they want to increase sessions or change them.
Any children on the waiting list for January are then offered any available sessions (generally the odd afternoon as mornings are more popular) but people take them as then the following September as they're already in the nursery they get priority over which sessions they want to enrol for and by Easter there's maybe the 1 or 2 slots left it's very popular but they do hold waiting lists from birth for people to put children's names down.

I guess although inflexible nurseries are a business and they won't hold empty spaces if they can be generating income.

I'm sure they don't have an absolute black and white system where every single child moves room in September, that's why the OP has been told there MAY be space at Easter, they just can't guarantee it. It's just that most children will move in September.

Surely, you understand that that for children lower down the nursery to move up a room, a space must become available. Spaces in the top/preschool room will mostly open up in July/August/September and so that's when the majority of movement will happen. They can GUARANTEE children will leave in September. They can't GUARANTEE children will leave at Easter.

If they have unusually large influx of babies or toddlers or children who can't move up etc. the they will move staff and children around to make the ratios work. In the case where babies leave and are replaced by much younger babies they may move a staff member down into the baby room to accommodate extra babies and fewer preschoolers, for example.

No. That's madness. What month did your oldest start?

I have 2 in private nursery.

1 started in July.
1 started in April.

They have a waiting list for things like swapping days etc

July and moved up to preschool room in early December. Which just confounds me even more if they only take new babies into the baby room in September and as other pp have suggested only move them up to the next room in September too. 🤷

I've never used a nursery, but it seems to me there must be 'occasional places' when someone randomly leaves or moves area or whatever.

if someone leaves from the toddler room and they have a baby waiting they may well move a child from baby to toddler if they are developmentally ready to make room for a new baby.

The difference being they can't guarantee to anyone they will be able to do that at any point in the year.

Just like school places. Standard entry year R and y7. If you don't take up the place then, you may be able to get your child in later, or you may not.

@TeenDivided then why bother with a deposit system to supposedly secure a space, if it doesn't actually secure a space? It makes no sense.

I'm wondering what other working families do...

Op, this is not how my nursery worked but I can see their POV. Probably when your toddler started, they weren’t quite full or else they knew about a leaver when you approached them.

I guess your deposit secures a space in sept 2023 or Sep 2024, the “entry points”

then why bother with a deposit system to supposedly secure a space, if it doesn't actually secure a space? It makes no sense.

It must work enough for them to make business sense.

The deposit would secure you a place from September. It would be up to you if you paid for the space without using it or sent your child earlier than planned.

If they have movement then people can join at later stages. If not they’re full so the can’t.

It makes business sense for them to try and fill all of their spaces in September when they lose the starting school cohort.

other working families in your area will either pay from September, take the gamble of a space when needed or use a different provider.

My old nursery didn't only take in September but there is no guarantee of a place.

So I put name on waiting list when I was 3 months pregnant, she started nursery when she was 7 months - we only needed 2 days and just got them. Full time there would have been no places.

That was years ago as well.

OP, do you only work 2 days a week or do you have another solution on those days?

Could you and DH use annual leave to cover the 2d per week from Easter to September? In practice, spaces may come up from august if “school leavers” go on summer holiday and cancel places early.

I meant “another solution on other days” sorry

My 3 year old is in a private nursery she loves and her little sister is due to start later this year once my mat leave is up. Nursery guarantees places (without deposit) for siblings of kids who already attend. Clearly this makes financial sense for them as ensures parents won't then move the older child elsewhere if they can't get a place for the younger one.

I guess my point is they'll all operate differently so maybe not much you can do if this is stance your nursery takes.

The other thing to be aware of is if another baby needs a full time space, the nursery is restricted from taking them. They may come back to you in autumn 2023 when they know which part time and full time children have started and indicate that there’s a space on Wednesdays straight away but nothing guaranteed on Thursdays until children move rooms, etc.

Just as a side note, with the government increasing funding, see link below...

educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/03/17/how-we-are-growing-our-30-hours-free-childcare-offer/

I think places will become even more sought after as lots of people on lower wages who maybe weren't planning on going back to work before their children started school will now reconsider if they get help with their childcare costs!

Too late for me I've already spent thousands on childcare over the years but great for people moving forward - it would be nice if they did something about wraparound and holiday provision aswell!

This is a really odd approach IMO, i had summer babies so wasn’t ready to put them in nursery at 3 months old but waiting until they were 15 months old would have been way too long!

So no, OP, this isn’t usual for all nurseries

To people asking how it works when babies all develop and are therefore ready to move rooms at different ages, the other thing I've seen happen at both of the nurseries we've used is they actually move the staff around and in one instance actually swapped the physical rooms over to accommodate what became a bulge in one age group as some needed to move up before others left.

I'm the same with summer babies and completely agree. It's not at all normal around here, yet nurseries are managing to operate at capacity and aren't holding places. There's a constant stream of people wanting to start each month on different days so they manage to fill the spaces. I've read so many MN threads over the years about people in the SE putting babies' names down on waiting lists the moment they're born (or in pregnancy) and have never heard of having to pay for a space from September so I can't believe it's very common practice. Can you imagine how many threads there would be from furious new mothers wanting their child to start in March and being told they either need to pay for 6 months they don't use or can't return to work til September?!

Remember, the sector is changing rapidly at the moment, with COL increases, utility bills, staff shortages and the proposed expansion in (under)funded hours. So empty places of a few months that could be absorbed even a year or two ago may not be doable now.

Nurseries are closing left right and centre because of costs and staffing, so the ones that are staying open can be less flexible as they know they’ll fill spaces.

one near here has closed their waiting list - you basically now have to ring up and if they have a space you can take it, now, or ring back when you want them to start. People are up in arms about it but three others have closed so they can fill the spots.
new starts also have a three month notice period and they’ve started charging an admin fee if you want to change days or hours (even if it’s to ones you and they know they can do!).