Confused about 30 hours free childcare?

[Kardelen]

So today I went to view a nursery that supposedly does 30 free hours funding for over 3 years.

when I spoke to the worker about this, she said the government says its 30 hours free but it’s not really, as they still have to provide food etc.

so she said it will be about 87 pounds a day, and 700 pounds a month.

im really confused as thought it was actually free? As normally the feeds are around 80 per day anyway?

The government massively underfunds the "free" hours compared with what nurseries need to stay afloat

• don't forget that funded hours are school term time only - so if you want the hours stretched to cover school holidays you only get around 22 hours
• nurseries are allowed to offer the free hours in "sessions" so may - for example - say that funded hours can only be used between 9-12 and 1-4 so that you pay full rate for hours outside of these times
• funding only covers education so food etc can be charged on top

School nurseries can often provide free hours - they can have higher ratio of 1:13 if a teacher is employed rather than 1:8 if care is provided by staff with other qualifications - but many tend to close for the school holidays

Many nurseries are struggling to stay afloat in the current market with staff shortages as working in Aldi pays better than being a nursery worker, energy costs rising, rent for premises increasing dramatically, costs of food, toys and art/craft materials rising

As everyone has explained, Nurseries (or CMers) can't afford to run on the hourly rate the Gvmnt pays (via LAs so the amounts do vary slightly). As a pp said, the "theory" election promise is that they can't charge a "top up" for the funded hours but they can't afford to operate if they don't, hence the expensive 'wrap around hours' or seemingly expensive food they provide. Ultimately, the money that comes in to the Nursery HAS TO be more than the costs they have going out, or they fold. Then no-one has any nursery places.

Re losing your registration, can you not work one shift a week on a Friday or Saturday night so you can sleep the next day when your dh is off ?

DS is at nursery full time (so 8-6 Mon-Fri) with 30 "free" hours. The bill is still over £1k a month.

DD goes to nursery 2 days a week. Before the 30 hours applied it was nearly £600 a month, now costs us £220.

So then you have to top it up, which adds up to a lot!
Nurseries that offer funded hours are not allowed to charge top up fees. They can charge for snacks, extra activities, and any hours over and above the funded hours. As it's 30 hours over 38 weeks many charge a much higher rate for any extra hours a child is in the nursery to make up for the lower rate the Government gives them
But if you only use 30 hours over 38 weeks, provide your own packed lunch, snacks and your child doesn't take part in any activities the nursery deem extra you should not pay anything. However I don't think any private nursery would take a child on that basis. However school nurseries, and preschools do.

Just a warning to those suggesting complaining to local authorities about extra fees.... I'm a childminder who used to accept funding. The local authority's rate for a 3 year old left me in a £20 deficit per day compared to my day rate. I used to charge £20 per day to funded parents. They were more than happy to pay this as it was a massive saving. However the council sent me a snooty letter saying I was not allowed to charge top ups and that all receipts were needed to show how the extra 20 was spent. Also it had to be voluntary and I needed to let parents know they didn't have to pay it and they could bring own food (against my ethos, I cook and we all eat together) and that they could decline extra activities (and ruin full paying children's days!) I can fill my places easily as there is high demand and I am well respected locally. So I decided to just stop funding. It actually broke my heart to do this because I believe the government should subsidise childcare. However I refuse to work for less than what I feel I am worth and there's no way I'm living in fear of the council sending me letters threatening to claw back funding. So now my 3-4 year olds have to pay full whack.

Those grants are provided by the local authority and the amount per hour varies by local authority.
The money comes via the LA but the funding comes from the Government and the Government sets the rate. It is based on a number if factors so the rate differs between areas.

living in fear of the council sending me letters threatening to claw back funding. The LA would have no choice but to say they will claw back money. The rules for the scheme are set by the Government and they tell LAs that providers must not charge top up funds and that they must give parents the option to opt out of meals etc.
I'm not saying it's right but it's not the fault of your council they are just administering the scheme as they have been told to.

I get on really well with our local authority's early years dept and know that essentially the money comes from gov. However, different LA's do police the funding differently, it's not consistent across the board. Some do turn a bit of a blind eye to top ups and wouldn't send letters like that, some pay funding monthly others termly, they all have different standards as to what a chargeable consumable is. I have worked under a few LAs and there are inconsistencies.

@Arwen7 it’s just that I don’t feel comfortable working in random places, and also it’s going to be tricky to do my revalidation every 3 years :(

@2anddone how does child minder work? Do they look after multiple children in their home and accept gov. Funding?

@mrsed1987 oh wow that’s incredible! Wouldn’t mind paying that at all.
are you based in London?

@marshmallowsforbreakfast after the 30 hours free? Do you mean you paid that for the hours if your child stayed more than 30 hours?

Childminders have to teach same curriculum as nurseries and are also registered with Ofsted. Like nurseries they can choose to accept funding and are on the gov tax scheme etc etc. We are allowed to look after uo to 6 children up to the age of 8. Usually only 3 of those are under 5s.

I'm in Scotland so probably different but my dd5 went to a council run nursery for 2 full years before starting school 2.5 days a week (30 hours spread through the whole year) and didn't pay them a penny for the full time she was there.

They can't be asking more in top ups than their normal fee someone has got that wrong.

They are not allowed to just take the cash value off. They can ask for a voluntary contribution

This is why I use a childminder rather than a nursery. I send dd with a packed lunch, so there's no consumables charge. Plus we claim tax free childcare as well as the 30 hours free. Prior to the 30 hours our bills were roughly £750pm. Now we pay an average of £240.

@Kardelen @WhatILoved has explained it perfectly, depending on what we get from our LA for funding per hour sometimes we have to have 3 children an hour to make minimum wage.
@DecommissionedVag one of my families are the same their bill for 36 hours a week has gone down to around £120 per month from over £600 as 30 of those are funded.

If it's £87 with funded hours, how much is it without funded hours?

£87 doesn't seem right at all. Ours charges £10.25 per day for food and consumables if you take 30 hours a week term time only.

£87 a day on top of the funding is ridiculous and I'm a childcare provider that advocates for nurseries charging extra fees. £87 per day is the kind of fee you'd get without finding so I'd defo shop around. Maybe also look at childminders as they may be more flexible if you're on shifts and they won't charge large fees/ maybe none

Scotland has a better per hour funding rate

Did she maybe mean £87 per week?

My childminder charges £2.80 per hour for funded hours (to top up the LA fuded rate £4.90) to her hourly rate. In addition she charges £2 a day for heating and for trips out fuel at 45p per mile. There is however a real shortage of childcare in our area. I have no idea what her costs are but she charges over £10 per hour for holiday and wrap around care and looks after a lot of children at one time.

Pre school by contrast don't charge any top up for funded hours other than for lunch but are obviously less flexible on hours.

You could work out the approx discount
30 hours x 39 weeks x hourly subsidy say approx £4.80
= £5616 a year from government, £468 per month.
Has your bill reduced by this amount?