New budget - I'm excited!

[gemloving]

I am so glad the topic of childcare is finally being discussed and it seems changed are being made.

I can't see us getting free hours for 1 year olds but 30h for 2 year olds would be fantastic and such a great move into the right direction.

I have a 4 year old and an almost 2 year old in the system!

Your premise assumes that all the children using the new free hours are currently in childcare, and being paid for at unsubsidised rates by parents.

However, this policy is intended to get parents who are currently not working and therefore not using childcare at all, back into work. Very often the reason they aren’t working is that they wouldn’t be able to afford childcare - even just the ‘extras’ - so they will still be priced out of childcare if government funding continues at the same rate it is paid now.

So the policy is likely to fail from this point of view - even supposing that the spare provision is available in the market, which looks highly unlikely given the current funding situation, and the likely results of this policy on provision.

I’m going to sound like a massive Tory which I’m not, but FFS stop moaning about the cost of childcare for children you willingly have! Why should the state fund your life choices?

@dottydarkness because if parents can’t afford to work we lose out on their tax payments, and we need people to have children for the future functioning of society. Keeping mums in work pays way more into the system over time than the cost of supporting with childcare, the data from countries that do this better than us is pretty clear. Such a short sighted and uncritical view.

It's quite a headline grabber, isn't it? There will be delighted parents across the country imagining affordable childcare - at the moment we're one of the most expensive in the world.

But in 12 months time, when the Tories are dead and gone and some other government is left to pick up the pieces of a desperate attempt to get votes, parents will realise that they can't get a decent place to send their child at all. The only providers who could survive this will do so by increasing ratios, and I imagine the qualification requirements will also be reduced, which will obviously negatively impact the care each child receives.

MN will be filled with posts from people who can't find a nursery place, and there'll be no childminders for people to say "have you considered a childminder?", and posts where parents complain that they're unhappy about the levels of care in nurseries because their child fell over/didn't drink all day/sat in a wet nappy and got horrendous nappy rash.

Touched a nerve have I dearie? A lot of people can afford childcare, that’s not my point at all. These people plan how their childcare will work and do the sums beforehand. However, some rush into banging out children they can’t afford, then bleat about the cost and lack of childcare afterwards, like they are a must-have accessory. These are the ones who will be harassing their providers today, and posting on MN about it. There’s the lack of critical thinking that you delightfully alluded to.

This is the Tories. .....what they give they will take away

I agree that women should be able to work if they want to but when did we describe our kids and caring for them as a burden?? Why are people bothering if the childcare aspect which is literally being a parent is described as a burden.

Some of the last few posts on here have now convinced me that the tories are employing people to post on MN.

tell me about it. Likewise with Labour! Lots of government bashing without looking into the issue more deeply. It’s scary how people lack critical thinking on here!

The big chains are absorbing the costs and biding their time. You are charging illegally if you're using top-ups, but the big nurseries don't seem to play by the rules, especially where profit is concerned.

Of course the bigger chains are expanding. They're not the ones struggling, either. They're revamping their nurseries - I picked up some tables recently that were being thrown out: one of those big nurseries had decided it wanted to change the decor and was simply dumping all their old, perfectly serviceable furniture. It was expensive, top of the range stuff and a staff member had rescued it from the skip to sell.

We have another of those big chain nurseries opening near us. It's being funded by an asset management company. They're charging over £10 an hour, but there are no other places available locally, so parents will have to pay it or stop work.
They're looking for good returns for the shareholders. It's in their interests to wipe out the smaller providers. They don't care about parents, or their staff. Children are money in the bank to them.

The "free entitlement" is really the taxes paid by those smaller providers being used to put them out of business and make fortunes for investors.

If all the mums of preschoolers you know are run ragged perhaps the fathers need to step up and do their share.

I'd be fine with a scandi style extended part time option with the proviso that it must be shared between parents and not default to the mother but the main challenge I see our returning mothers facing is that they end up doing way more than half the work.

@dottydarkness no nerves ‘dearie’, my childcare’s only half what I take home and we don’t actually need my salary either, but it’s not about me. There is a net societal and tax gain from better childcare funding, making it about individuals ‘banging out children they can’t afford’ as you so nicely put it just completely ignores this. The country would benefit overall from childcare being better funded, both now and in the future.

Comedy gold

Its completely irrelevant if its not properly funded. Already the free hours for over twos are cross subsidised by inflating the price for younger children making it harder for women to return to work after mat leave and retain job/career continuity.

Many nurseries don't even offer the free hours now because they are not properly funded.

Judging by comments on the morning round for people running nursery businesses there has been precious little discussion with the sector on how this is going to work. That doesn't auger well - it smacks of posturing rather than any real investment in early years.

Let me guess, you're the business analyst for this national chain? With economic axioms like "demand will always increase supply" got to be.

When would this new funding start ?

It's not even been announced yet.

@Hairfriar
Thank you , so no point getting too excited just yet at it could be next year 🤣

No - don't book the Caribbean cruise just yet. 😬

@Hairfriar
No cruse for me . I'm actually on the flip side of this.
DD is a nanny and her family have been very upfront that once they get the free childcare they will let her go and take up the free hours . So depending on when the new free hours start will determine when she needs to look for another family.

Here we go. So let's not make childcare affordable which then means a huge section of society are not able to afford to have children. This is not the 1950s where people could afford to live in a house with one wage. My childcare costs for 3 days are £860 per month, more than my mortgage! Do you think that is fair? I work part time and do the minimum hours possible to be able to afford to contribute to our living costs and also to be able to look after my children. As a working Mum I am proud to show my children that I do work and how important that is after spending many years building up my career. If I simply stopped working then it would take me a long time to get back to where I was which would then mean more financial hardship for my family in the long run. We have a house big enough for us and food on the table because I do work. Lets not forget the economical benefits of women working as well and also the fact that children thrive socially in childcare. I also work in health care and actually feel that my job is important in helping people.
So no I will not stop.moaning about the cost of childcare!

The issue for me is that childcare is far too expensive in the first place. High quality childcare should be available to all those that require it but at a fair price. I dont have children by the way so I dont have an agenda.

You do indeed sound like a massive Tory ‘dearie’.

my nursery fees have just increased by 10% due to COL….

now 1400 a month - that extra money aligned with mortgage increase means that a previously two waged and comfortable household who made a decision to have a 2nd child in 2021 is now firmly on the breadline - not a sob story, there are millions more worse off.
It’s not a case of ‘funding lifestyle choices’ childcare prices in this country are utter dog shit and a complete embarrassment when compared to other European countries.

ahhh @dottydarkness pray tell - who, in a few years time when you need a carer or a consultant or a bin man or an electrician or a teacher or a waitress (shall I carry on) will those people be? because you are aware that the birth rate in this country is declining because of things like the cost of childcare aren't you?

Don't also forget that, all of us paying taxes now are paying for CURRENT state pensions, hospitals etc etc (whatever people think, it's not a savings pot)

so, again, in years to come - wouldn't you like there to be a tax paying society to fund YOUR pension and NHS etc etc?

I agree but no government cares about your child or you. What they want is every single adult working and paying tax. That's what providing "free" childcare about really comes down to.

People are eejjits if they think young children (with the obvious exceptions) thrive in childcare settings verus home with family.