Does everyone think childcare should be paid for?

[Cococomellon]

I have seen a lot of posts in social media about the cost of childcare, that it should be free and all the reasons in favour of that such as allowing both parents to work and the impact on the economy.

I can see how this would be a benefit. I have a young child and pay for childcare but I planned for this and it is not a surprise to me.

Who pays for this "free" childcare? Is there spare money the government has squirrelled somewhere? Should we all pay more taxes? Will the nhs get even less funding? Schools?

Perhaps I am just very right wing as I don't see to see the counter- arguments but I'm sure many people (some who don't have children) don't want to pay for others children to go to nursery?

A ton of data over many, many years from all over OECD countries

Is there any specific to the uk? When im reading, i can't see any that states it will create a better economy or what figures they used to get to that?

I know people can find any data to back up their debate but i would be interested to read it and how if any other effects its had when implemented.

Just as well historically this hasn't happened or there would be a lot of staving rich people living in their own rubbish....what happens to those who become ill or made redundant so can't afford what they thought they could are those children forced into the scrap heap as never should have been borns? You don't need travel to be culturally aware and gain benefits of a good upbringing it's about access to good parks, play areas, messy play, variety of toys and books all stuff that costs to provide at home if your a nurse struggling to put food on a table and live in the only area you can afford....as Truss said on opening a food bank a few years ago people using food banks need to get better jobs....by by nursing.

But you will benefit from paying taxes to support people having children (including childcare) because by the time you're retired, these children will be the ones generating the tax revenue to pay your pension and other state-funded benefits for pensioners.

You say that many people, mainly those that don't have children, wouldn't want to pay for childcare with their taxes, but we pay for benefits even if we work, we pay for prisons even if we don't break the law etc etc so what's the difference? It undoubtedly would have a hugely positive affect on the economy.

There bursting in some areas because so many have closed down due to not making money causing a shortage.

Providers can offer this unfortunately the government said it was free childcare then once they rejected the sufficient funding levels proposed came up with proposals to help nurseries stay open...sessions with paid for times in between, putting up fees for non funded hours and younger children, consumables charges, holding down wages to all staff to minimum levels, asking parents to do volunteer work in offices and taking in ironing were all proposals made to settings by a consultancy company my LA employed to sell it to providers.

@thegirlwhotamedthedragon

Ive just had a little look at the OECD countries

Spain - childcare isnt free to all
Italy - childcare is subsides but not regulated by any local authority so the quality of the childcare providers is massively different in different areas.
Mexico - childcare isnt free to all
Finland - childcare is free but taxes are higher for all to cover that
France - childcare isnt free to all
Austrailia - childcare is not free to all.
Canada - childcare is not free to all
Netherlands - Childcare is not free to all.
Poland - Childcare is not free to all.
Japan - Childcare is not free to all
Estonia childcare is not free to all

I was wondering which ones who provide free childcare to all the better economy was based on?? I did only look at a few off the list so may have missed the ones that could be comparable?

So your suggesting help the ones who don't need it so they can have more luxuries let those who need it go without be unable to improve their basic standards so the rich get richer just like the good old days and sooner or later wealth filters down.....but historically that never happened unionisation improved things for the poor in the industrial revolution not the rich spending more.

This! We spend all that money educating girls only for them to work in low skilled part time jobs because they can't afford childcare and employers won't be flexible
To me the logical step would be making employment conditions better for all, so a proper living wage, more flexible working, decent maternity/paternity/shared parental leave, childcare offers as part of job offers etc.

Then make sure that any government funded hours are funded at the level to fund the hours as high fees in younger years are needed to plug the gaps in the 3 year old funding that the government doesn't fund properly.

At the moment the benefits system is basically saving companies money by allowing them to pay low wages that require the government to top up in benefits.

Plus the government is already happy to 'cut red tape' aka have poorer ratios for childcare settings. That isn't being done to give children good quality early years education and care.

Yes I am aware, if we carry on as we are there will be more people attempting to claim than paying in. We should try to repair the issue though. There are options for the problem of funding pensions, social care etc for older people. There will need to be solutions because not everyone will be supported by a private pension and many won’t be sufficiently supported. Those capable of empathy realise that there will need to be state support. So we can either 1. Make more young people to work and pay tax. 2. Raise the age of retirement ever higher as people live longer.

W@Annie232 whilst I totally understand your frustration, I try to remember that in those cases, the access to childcare is in the CHILDS best interest.

Germany has heavily subsidised and nearly free childcare
italy has very good childcare provisions, nearly all 3-6 year olds are in state nurseries. Nordic countries have good childcare.

I believe France has free 'ecole maternelle' for all 3 year olds unless that has changed recently.

Germany has heavily subsidised and nearly free childcare

I was looking for free for all provisions as that seemed to be the comparison.

italy has very good childcare provisions, nearly all 3-6 year olds are in state nurseries

But the state provisions are not regulated so the quality of some of the provisions are questionable.

Nordic countries have good childcare

Yes, and they pay higher taxes.

I was looking for something suggesting that improves our economy having it free to all

I believe France has free 'ecole maternelle' for all 3 year olds unless that has changed recently

We also give free hours at that stage.
The point would be It would need to be from months old before you got the benefit as suggested from getting straight back into work.
We give some 2 year funded hours, i believe already as well.

From a providers point of view yes it should be paid for. Now there is lots of help for parents via an array of schemes but for the majority of providers we are subsidising a massive underfunding.
We are expected to offer affordable flexible childcare but we are limited by ratios quite rightly for safety reasons. Tomorrow I'm working only 1 mindee for 4hrs charging £5ph and out of that whole £20 I'll be earning I'll probably only see about £14 after costs for food and resources are accounted for meaning my hourly rate will be nearer £3.50.
Over the years I've been told how I must be raking it in but the truth is as the years go on I'm subsidising costs more and more to the point I won't be able to continue.
First and foremost the funding for 2 and 3 year olds needs to be increased before more providers close.

*Nordic countries have good childcare

Yes, and they pay higher taxes.

I was looking for something suggesting that improves our economy having it free to all*

It is a given that taxes will be higher but this is not necessarily an obstacle to a better economy. You can't have Scandinavian standards of welfare for all on American taxes.

It is a given that taxes will be higher but this is not necessarily an obstacle to a better economy. You can't have Scandinavian standards of welfare for all on American taxes

Absolutely its a given as the money has to come from somewhere to fund free childcare for all. But the reason for the my discussion was aimed at the fact someone stated that based on other countries they knew it would be better for our economy if childcare was free for all, i was looking at how this was evidenced and couldnt find any, that was all.

Do you think higher taxes are incompatible with a good economy?

No. If people can afford to pay, they should.
Heard a shocking headline advertising a File on Four investigation. There has been a significant increase in the number of children entering g the care system simply because their families can no longer afford to care for them. Think about that. In 2023.
public funds should be directed at those who need them, not given out universally.

Do you think higher taxes are incompatible with a good economy?

No.
Do you have any evidence on the part im discussing?
People stating Making childcare free for all makes a better economy?

I haven't RTFT but very interesting proposal. However given almost all wealthy countries have Total Fertility rates under the replacement rate of 2.1 children and many are now offering payments to parents in an attempted to encourage birth rates perhaps we should consider the maternity fund floated by a group of academics in China where childless people pay into an annual fund that then they can apply for relief from when they have children. You would pay less the more children you have.

Personally I don't think pitching having children/ not having children as an individual selfish choice is particularly helpful and see lots of benefits to free or at least subsidised childcare for society in general.

No, it shouldn't be free because that would co-opt responsibility to the tax payer. Not everybody wants or has kids. However, childcare should be much, much cheaper. It shouldn't be more affordable to stay at home full-time than to work. Affordable & high quality care should be available in early years and in elderly years too. If staff were regarded as valued professionals doing an extremely important job for some of the most vulnerable in society, (age wise) then pay would be higher, more people would be attracted into this work and would stay. Affordable homes & childcare seems a good goal for the next 40 years!

But I think the poster tigger was responding to originally, was saying that giving free child care in our present tax climate would more than pay for itself. They weren't proposing to raise taxes to pay for it.
Sorry, tigger if I got that wrong.