Compulsory Top-Up Fees at Nurseries are not legal!

[Undercovermumma]

Hi mums,

My daughter's nursery charges compulsory top-up fees for food, activities, consumables and so on, in a single lump sum, so I do not know where my money is really going. What is worse, though, is that these fees should, by law, be voluntary, with nurseries providing alternatives if we are unwilling to pay! I know nurseries are severely underfunded, but the Government should be making up the deficit, not us!

Have any of you experienced a similar problem? I am looking to get information on a range of nurseries and what add-ons they are charging, so i can take this up higher. If you want to be involved, and take the 3-5yr old Universal or Extended Funding, please give me the name of the Nursery/Group, location, and what add-ons you are being charged (price and information). I would be so grateful.

Thank you all!

The charges are not illegal, what's not allowed is charging an hourly rate top up for the childcare hours you are receiving free.

We will shortly be paying £5 a day for food and £2 a day for consumables (wipes, creams etc)

Tbf in comparison to the £54.95 a day we have been paying for 2 years I am quite happy to pay £7 a day for my most precious possession to have the best childcare the nursery can provide.

Dd pays £5ph for each hour that she uses over the thirty hours he is entitled to. All food included so breakfast, snacks and lunch. She sends a changing bag with nappies, wipes and cream and spare clothes. The only time she has been asked for money is a £1 donation to Christmas Party and Children in Need and £5 for her ticket for the pre school trip in summer dgs's ticket is free.

This is normal so that nurseries have enough income to stay open - only just . Many have closed and more will do so.
@Undercovermumma - work out what you pay per hour? Is that enough for the nursery to psy their staff, food, building, insurance, running costs ?

In comparison to the £85p/d I was previously paying I am more than happy to pay £2.50 per day for an early drop off and send a packed lunch, and a monthly snack contribution.

I don't know where this endless government pot of money they can keep subsidising things with is supposed to be.

If you don't like the additional charges shop around a bit and find a cheaper option.

Thank you for the reply! They are illegal if not voluntary, according to the DfE's Statutory guidance for local authorities; "these charges must be voluntary for the parent."

This makes me sick.

So what? You want to stop paying it and for the nursery to close?

My DD’s pre-school ended up closing because they lost so much money providing the government’s ‘free’ hours. I’d have preferred them charging us extra, tbh, as it was then an utter pain in the arse to find new childcare.

The government aren’t going to make up the shortfall, it’s always been the same so you could refuse to pay it t if all parents did this then the nursery would end up closing.

I still pay £30 a day for my DC on top of funded hours.

That said, as others have noted I don’t blame the nursery. I blame the system.

They are voluntary in a way, by choosing not to use that nursery. Our nursery is fantastic, but makes it clear the government payment does not cover their costs and extra enrichment activities they undertake. They state on the paperwork that if you don't/can't pay the surcharge the nursery is not for you. It is not the nursery's fault.

I’d rather not join a campaign that will make even more nurseries financially unviable and lead to them no longer offering the 30 hours or closing altogether, so no.

We get the 23 funded hours per week but he’s in nursery for 26 hours per week so we pay for the extra 3 hours per week. This is inclusive of all snacks and drinks etc. I’m not sure what the issue is tbh. I’d expect to pay for that.

Is this a different issue as I don’t really understand?

If you don’t pay the top up, you don’t have a nursery place. Nurseries can’t operate at a loss. Their alternative is to offer places for 3-4 year olds.

It's one of the ways that Robert Goodwill (several Early Years Ministers ago) suggested we could make up the shortfall in funding.

Another was to have a collection bucket in the reception hall, like some hospitals do. Other brilliant ideas included providing take-away food for parents and taking in their ironing.

The funding no longer covers our fees and hasn't for a long time. The scheme was a Labour initiative that the Labour Government introduced around 2002/3 and it really was free then.

I strongly suspect the Conservatives want to be rid of it, but know what an unpopular decision that would be. So they're making it as difficult as possible for providers to offer it in the hope that we'll either go under or come out of the scheme.
Then you'll have no subsidy at all, or the parents of 0-2 year old children will be faced with higher fees to cover your shortfall.

Have you asked them if they mind?

Truss is also looking at forcing all childminders to register with an agency too, so you have the joy of having those expenses added on too if that's the case.

Tbh my biggest pet peeve is I pay so much in childcare, ie a huge proportion of my salary (I have two in a private nursery right now), and the staff receive so little. I adore the staff at my DC’s nursery, they are so invested in the children and truly care for them - yet their salary is shit. Something is going wrong somewhere when more than half of my pretty decent salary isn’t enough to pay the employees a fair wage. Other countries seem to have a much better model - though I don’t profess to know what the answer is.

Other countries seem to have a much better model - though I don’t profess to know what the answer is.

Almost exclusively it's from higher taxes and increased ratios.

Think of all the pressures your finances are undergoing now, increased mortgages/rents, energy prices, petrol, food.... nurseries and childminders also have to cover these increases, they aren't making more profit.

The funding is for care - and that isn't paid at a high enough rate.

If you don't want to pay any extra are you prepared to supply all your child's meals and snacks, nappies, wipes, hand towels, toilet paper, soap, antibacterial wipes for cleaning surfaces etc and all the equipment they would need for any activities such as paint, glue, paper, pens, painting overalls, paint brushes, etc. If you're not going to pay for anything extra other than your child being there, then you need to supply it all. There will be a lot that you probably hadn't even thought of.

You could offer to supply everything needed yourself but the extra faffing around by everyone for you to do that isn't realistic. Most nurseries would probably have no availability when they realised that you won't contribute to the over all costs like everyone else does.

My son's playschool charge for the hour over lunch and the food they provide. The alternative is that you're welcome to pick your child up for an hour and return them after lunch. I don't know of any parents who take that option. The government funding is only £4.50 per hour, the normal fees are £7 per hour and that's one of the cheapest nurseries in the area as it's a non-profit. Nurseries and playschools round here are closing constantly, the funding simply does not allow them to stay open. I'd happily pay an hourly top up of £2-3 to keep the playschool open, but they're not allowed to do that.

Grandchildren nursery charged £48 per day plus extras if you didn't like it there's the door . That's a normal charge around here. Some just won't get involved in Welsh government help because payment is so slow in coming

@HotDogKetchup While I do agree, and I wince when I get the nursery bill each month, If I actually break down the costs then there isn't much room for profit either.

We pay £220 a week for DS, who is there Full time - 5 days 8:15-515.
They're open 7:30-6 so that's an hourly charge rate of £4.19. for that £4.19 the employees get min wage of £9.50. The manager and higher qualified staff on slightly more. The heating is on, lights, they pay internet and water and business rates. They get a weekly Asda delivery for all meals (DS eats lunch and dinner and snacks there, has breakfast at home but it is offered)
There are 2 full time children, DS and another 2 year old. around 8 employees, and a total of 35 children - most of which only attend 2 or 3 days.

I pay £133 per day per month, on top of funding for one and £62 per day for the month - that’s 8-6. so we’re talking higher figures.

ah ok @HotDogKetchup - ouch! We are in the NE, in not a high prices area - daily charge is £52.95 for ours (and not the cheapest in the area) but discounted for full time attendees to £220/week.

£220 a month funded would seem reasonable - similar to before and after school care at a preschool.

I try and view it as an investment as I love the nursery. I just feel for the staff! I would like to see their wage match their enthusiasm and commitment.