Not declaring a nanny and taking a "non qualified" nanny - thoughts ?

[monaco]

Hello all

so far, I thought that the only way to have a nanny was to hire a qualified one for whom you pay taxes. Yesterday, I talked to a mother who told me that often families actually often go for a nice student who gets on great with kids and they pay them cash so that they don't pay taxes.

My questions to anyone here is : what are the legal risks of doing that and has anyone have similar experience with a non qualified nanny and what did they think of it ?

Gaucho in Richmond

don't worry Jura, I am also guilty as charged on the 'doing their own paperwork/geek/accountant' front.... but I think I blew most of my savings on last week's taxi.

Monaco - you can get gross/net rates at www.listentotaxman.com

Jura, I reckon you could buy more champagne by taking the babysitting out of contract / taxable income.

if found out you will be fined by inland rev £3000 + you will have to pay all tax and NI owed on wages for your nanny.

Nanny would be mad and stupid.... with no 'official income' inland rev are very soon going to investigate her
she will be unable to apply for a mortgage
and will have no sick / maternity pay etc
It will also affect her pension when she retires.

Its a stupid idea on both sides and highly illegal on yours

last time I looked the earnings threshold was £100 pw. This rises to £105 in april 2008
so say if you wanted a nanny for 8 hours a day twice a week the maximum you could pay would be £6.25 per hour without paying the tax and NI

nannyL - just wondering how IR would find out?

the grapevine tells me that underdeclaring nannies income to IR is reasonably common in SW London

Rather shockingly, when told I was looking for a nanny, an employment (yes that's right) lawyer friend said 'oh you'll just pay cash in hand won't you?'

Er, no, for all the reasons nannyL said.

The IR will find out if the nanny has a fall out with the employer.
Nothing to stop someone hell bent on revenge

PellMell's pointed out one way, or IR can randomly investigate someone who has no declared income and isn't on benefits (this happened to one of my student friends who point them in the direction of the student loans company and her parental allowance!).

OR nanny can accidentally drop you in it with an agency who may want to see a P45 from his/her last job and s/he (quite innocently) say "I don't have one, they paid cash in hand)

presumably this isn't such an issue if you also employ someone who perhaps may not have a legal right to work in the UK

Many nannies don't have formal qualifications, some have first aid certificates etc. Paying a nanny in the legal way is nothing to do with being qualified.

I would first of all look at what you actually need in a childcarer for your 8mth old rather than trying to work out how to get out of paying taxes. It is never a good idea for you or the employee to do things underhand.

It may turn out that you only need someone who would be perhaps be classed as a babysitter. Fair enough but they have to have enough experience to cope with an 8mth old though, if you will be there for most of the time then this may be easier. You may well get a Uni student that has ennough experience and hours will fit in with the ones you need.

If the carer will have sole charge for any length of time , you really need to get someone with experience enough to be able to deal with any eventuality.

Blonde nanny reports you when she leaves!

Having a nanny who isn't permitted to work in the UK however, could end you up with a fine or 2 years at an HMP.

How your child's nanny could land you in prison - TimesOnline

x posted others beat me to it! Blonde I'm really not sure I'd be happy to leave my lo with someone I was paying under the table who had no right to work in country just seems too 'wrong' for someone I'd be leaving my lo with

hmmm seems that quite a few people round here are happy to do it that way though... explains why everyone has a nanny despite the papers saying the average London live out salary is over £33K

"The solution would be to use her only one day then !Or, declare one day but not the other."

Since when has defrauding HM Revenue & Customs (which, let me remind you, collects tax revenues on all our behalfs) been a solution?

I really object to dishonesty. Do you not have any shame about stealing?

OP to answer one of your questions my friend works in richmond as a nanny and is paid £10 an hour. she works really long hours though 4 days a week. when she speaks to her employers they alway speak about the amount thats actually goes into her bank and they worry about the rest of it. (well nannytax does).

i can understand after reading this thread the nanny does not benefit at all of being paid cash in hand. and imo would be stupid in doing so.

I really do feel like starting a "breaking and entering" thread.

The OP would go something like this:

I am a leetle bit short of money this month, due to my daily salon habit. I have decided to make up the differential with some private enterprise. I plan to break into some of the larger houses a few streets down. They'll never miss the odd painting, some jewellery maybe.

Then I can finish the OP off with Monaco's choice question:

"Is anyone aware of people doing that and what are the risks/legal liability?"

and see what sort of response I get.

theblone.... well inland rev find out when they see that nanny isnt getting any benefits OR money and alarm bells start ringing...

OR nanny could just call inland rev herself.... knowing that tax / NI owed from her will be billed to ehr bosses regardless...

and as for the absurd idea of hiring someone not legally allowed to work here....

do you really want to go to jail? If found out?

Apart from that these are people looking after your children and to suggest you get an illegal person to do that just to SAVE A FEW £s is beyong shocking.

Oh and by the way if I knew / found out that people were delibertly not delaring there nanny I would not hesititate to calling inland rev MYSELF and telling them... thats another way they could find out

so you better hope your nanny illegal immigrant, didnt actually ever mention it to anyone

nannyL - I doubt many Polish or Bulgarian nannies would be bothered to phone IR themselves

maybe the nannies are happy for their employer to underdeclare their income if they end up with more in their pocket at the end of the week

maybe

But if i was a mum there is no way i wouold want to miss my kids for 2 years while in jail for employing an illegal person. It shocks me actually that anyone takes that risk.

And IMO if you really are of the mind-set to deliberatley employ and illegal person, cause it saves you just a few £s. then you ought to go to jail.

Also wouldnt consider them a 'nanny'....

I was surprised too but maybe I'm just naive!

I doubt we will get anyone joining the thread to say that's what they do

Quatrocento, thank you so much for being so nice to people ! You are very quick to pass on judgement.

I think I am like any mother in London trying to find the best care for my child in a way that I can afford it. I absolutely resent the posts that sugges that I would rather have an underpaid, illegal, bad nanny look after my child so that I can have a nice hair do !

I was asking a question to the forum because I am French and not aware of the system here. I am absolutely ready to pay taxes and all but when I started hearing several people saying that they don't declare their nanny/au pair/babysiytter, etc.. i thought, well maybe I am too honest for my own good.

I am grateful to the people in this thread that gave me the facts, allowed me to make my own opinion and didn't pass on judgement.
This has been much more efficient in convincing me to abid by the rules than calling me a thief.

I am disappointed : in the past, these forums have been really helpful and a nice community. If it starts becoming a place where others judge you without knowing you and insult you, then this is really a pity.