CM club - She is in the wrong, so why do I feel guilty??

[FeelingOld]

I will try to keep it short.

I care for 2 siblings after school (don't pick them up as from a school from other side of town to my kids school so a friend of their mum's drops them at my house), their mum never lets me know til at least monday morning which days they will be coming, if not coming monday she doesn't ring til tues or weds iyswim. Have asked her constantly to let me know no later than sunday 4pm. She is also always a couple of days late paying me.
Anyway to top it all the kids didn't turn up at all last week and her payment is now 10 days late, sent her a reminder after 7 days saying if not paid by 6pm that day would implement the £5 per day late payment fee. Still no payment today so dh has just dropped off another reminder and I have added 3 x £5 for late payment and have stated that will not have mindees unless payment is made in full and if she has to start letting me know in advance which days she needs me.
I know I should charge in advance but she works shifts so it gets so complicated to work out.
After putting up with all of this I still feel guilty for doing this as have never implemented the late payment fee before. Dh says I should give them notice, but I feel sorry for the mindees as they are so lovely.

Poor you

It's horrid when they pay late - you feel so used

I think they will take the "final demand" as notcie & you may not see them again

I used to look after the little girl when she was aged 2 til she was 3(her mum was unreliable then) then her Gran looked after her til she started school in sept last year, then her gran died unexpectedly and when mindees mum asked me to start having her and her brother after school I said yes cos mindee is very shy and spent most of her time with her gran and was very upset so was worried how she would cope if I said no.
I am a fool, I know.

Did you put it in your contract that she must notify you by 4 pm Sunday? Does the contract state what will happen if you don't get notification? You could try one of these

1 "If the childminder does not receive written notification of which days are required on or before [day/time] then childcare will not be available for that week and the parent agrees to pay the minimum charge of £x "

or

1. "If the childminder does not receive written notification of which days are not required on or before [day/time]the childminder agrees to reserve [the whole week] for the child and the parent agrees to pay full fees for [the whole week] regardless of whether child attends."

Drawback of option 1 is that you won't get much ££££ and drawback of option 2 is that parent will probably just turn up without bothering to let you know at all when they're coming.

DONT FEEL GUILTY about charging late fees. Easier said than done I know. Had one parent paid my late fees before I billed her for them & I still felt uncomfortable about it!

But if the parent chooses not to pay you on time then they are choosing to pay your late fees iyswim. And if they haven't bothered to let you know they've had a problem/apologise etc then it just shows they've no idea or don't care on the impact on you. SELFISH! Don't waive the fee unless there are special circumstances (eg, death in family or parent in hospital)

have you heard back yet?, have they gone away or anything?

if you dont hear back by mid week i would send another letter giving notice and include an invoice showing all payments owed to you..very strange situation, poor you

Ayla - it's actually in her contract that she will give me her rota around the middle of the month for the following month iyswim but she never does as she says that her boss is always changing it, that's why I asked her for no later than 4pm on a Sunday. I just like to plan my week on a Sunday.

Just a quick update.
While I was on the school run this morning someone put the money through my letterbox, full amount including late payment fee but no apology or explanation just who is was from.
Doubt they will come again, but I am not really that bothered as can do without the hassle to be honest.

FeelingOld: "Anyway to top it all the kids didn't turn up at all last week and her payment is now 10 days late, sent her a reminder after 7 days saying if not paid by 6pm that day would implement the £5 per day late payment fee."

You want to be careful with that: you are legally allowed to charge interest, but not enforce penalties. No court would ever see £5/day as a reasonable interest rate (unless the debt was more than £15k), so it's completely unenforceable.

How do I know this? Because in another legal discussion group, off Mumsnet, someone has been asking advice about a childminder who has been trying to charge £5/day late payment. Hmm . I wonder if you two know each other.

i dont know all the legalities, but I was advised to put in my policies that i would charge x amount as a late payment fee and then refusal of care..it was more than £5 and every cm i know has been told the same!?

A £5 late payument fee is included in my contract - I think it's standard.

It may be standard, but you haven't a hope in hell of getting it to stick if anyone ever challenges it in court. In which case, of course, you'll end up paying the other side's costs. The most you can hope to get away with - I am reliably told - is 12.5% annual interest.

Of course you may scare a few people into paying up, but even then you might be open to investigation by trading standards for unfair contracts.

This is in eveyones contract and it is pointed out to parents and they have all signed to say they agree to it(like others I was advised to put it in). It states that if payment is late £5 per day can be charged as late payment fee, however I have never implemented it before as parents are usaully only 4 or 5 days late paying. She was 10 days late paying and I gave her 7 days grace before adding the charge so it was only £15 which is less than 12.5% of the amount she owed.

i have a mindee who comes as and when mum normally text me at 3 to pick up at 3.10
she never pays so we have an agreement that when it gets to £30 she pays but once it gets to £30 i dont hear from her for wks then she pays and its back to text not to bothered as he is over 8 but its nice to know what your doing

at least you have been paid and an extre £15 good for you

FeelingOld: "This is in eveyones contract and it is pointed out to parents and they have all signed to say they agree to it(like others I was advised to put it in)."

Doesn't make any difference if they have signed or not. You can't enforce unfair terms in contracts. There's a useful section on unfair contracts here - note this bit:

"Examples of the types of contract terms the OFT will consider to be unfair include:

14. Penalties"

The bit before that says

"Members of the public can notify the OFT if they consider a contract term to be unfair. The OFT can try and negotiate changes to the contract if it is unfair. Or take out a court injunction to stop the contract term being used in the future."

How do nurseries get away with charging at least £5 late fees then? I know that our local nursery charges at least that, per 15 mins late!

That is a charge Maureen not a penalty

Good point! I'll butt out now!

So I will re-word it at contract reviews to make it a late payment charge then. Will that do?
I think most of us put it in as a deterrant and never actually intend to implement it. I have had lots of parents pay me late over the years but this is the first time I have used it. I have never been paid on time by the mum in question so have just had enough, I think I have been more than fair so far.

uber - this may seem unfair to you but if parents pay on time they will never have to pay it,so for 99% of parents it will never be an issue.
If the company you worked for constantly paid you 3 or 4 days late and on occasion paid you as much as 10 days late I am sure you would not be happy.

Mine are worded: Large payment for = £5 per day - does this make it ok because I haven't put 'penalty'. Everyone I know has this, again, I've been paid late a few times but never actually charged as they weren't that late.

late payment

Flamin pregnancy brain!!! fee not for! DOH!!! (think I need to go to bed lol)

Not really guys when a nursery charges for late collection - they are charging you for a service you are receiving

But when you put in a late payment charge/penalty you are levying an amount for no additional service

So the rule Ubergeekian mentions comes into play - it's like the bank charges that is in court atm - the bank has charged an unfair amount for being overdrawn

It's normally only a problem if someone complains - it might be worth emailing NCMA about it - remember there used to be a space on the contract for a late payment fee, but it disappeared. - I think we can only say - no pay no childcare, but be careful as we might be cutting off you nose to spite your face

Well I'm surprised that a popular local pre-school have late payment fee if not received by set date!

As I say it's normally not a problem unless someone complains

4 hrs a day @ £4 an hour for 39 weeks is £3120

Presumably they pay termly

so 12.5% = £390
Divided by 3 terms = £130

So they can charge up to £130 (per term) before it's unfair

I'll have a think - I think parents should question if they aren't happy before signing. May well email NCMA about it too!