Nanny with her own 2 small children

[korallenplaty]

Hi,

Apologies for the long post!

We're in a bit of a pickle. We met a wonderful person offering to look after our daughter (4y) and (yet to be born) son. This would be flexibly from her own home and at ours. She has two small children under 3 herself, so offered a very reasonable rate because of that.

All was great until we looked up the legal side of it and realised we would have to employ her and pay minimum wage etc (her offer is far below that) as the hours would be to cover both my husband and I working pretty much full time.

1. Assuming that she doesn't just want cash in hand which we would be uncomfortable with, is there a way to employ her as a nanny but pay less than minimum wage? I.e. are there any deductions for food or so that we could make?

1. Are there any other options, i.e. considering her a shared nanny given that she is looking after her two children, too? In that case, would we still pay the full minimum wage? I saw a suggested split of 2/3 per family, but not sure if that is in line with current law.

1. We are also thinking about asking her to register as a childminder and helping her towards the cost of the courses that she hasn't got yet.

To clarify, we really like her and obviously want to pay her appropriately. As a childminder she would end up earning more and the shared nanny scenario would also be better for her, but I am not sure if she would be open to either.

Many thanks

My normal rate for nannying is £17ph gross (never talk in NET)

A ‘low’ rate for me to bring my own child might be £14ph…

Yeah, god forbid people should have childcare that suits them.

I don't make the law, apologies if you thought I did.

I’ll go against the grain here and say I had this arrangement with my last baby and it worked really well for us. All the kids are now really good friends now she no longer looks after them and she is more part of the family. I look after her kids sometimes now. I did know her previous to get working for us.

I did pay her more then minimum wage, paid holidays and sick pay too and she paid tax so she could then get 30 hours for her oldest once able.

I think you need to be very careful here. Cash in hand childcare is not a good idea. As a childminder she would only be able to have 3 children under 5 and that includes her own. Plus it’s not as simple as just becoming a childminder. She would have to be Ofsted registered and inspected. They have a lot of boxes to tick. If she worked as a nanny in your home you would have to employ her with a contract, pay tax and NI, pension, sick pay, maternity pay. In my opinion it is not worth trying to get childcare on the cheap. Ensure anyone you have offering childcare has insurance to cover them in the event of an accident. Insurance will not stand if not legally employed.

She would be over ratio as a childminder. So that wouldn't work. I'm unsure of the rules as a nanny. I wouldn't employ with her having young children, I would worry about her kids getting ill and her needing time off

Why exactly do you think you get to defy the law on childcare and employment just because you don't want to pay minimum wage?

Either a childcare setting is registered, inspected, in the person's home and they are properly self employed, or it's in your home and they are a nanny, employed by you, and you must fulfil your legal liabilities as an employer. Including paying at least minimum wage, and good luck getting a half decent nanny for NMW.

It would be a mix which in theory I find quite good. My husband and I both work from home, but if she is here at least in the beginning I could nurse the baby when needed, but once they get too rambunctious they could go to hers.

Her kids would be there too. So you'd be trying to work from home with FOUR kids in the house.

Sorry; I just don't think this is going to work.

She may seem lovely, but I think what @Masterchief507 described is probably closer to the truth, and that is incredibly sad 😞

With the best will in the world, I just don't see how can look after a newborn, two under 3's, plus your older daughter on her own.

If a person looks after a child for more than 2 hours a day in the minders home then they must register with Ofsted or an Ofsted registered agency. English rules.

They need to be registered, I wouldn’t be flippant about her not being registered. Way too risky.

What some other people have said is relevant here I think. Nannies tend to earn well above the minimum wage. So while you can expect to pay less for nanny who is bringing her own children with her, that would still be above the minimum wage. And cash in hand is never a good idea.

For everything to be above board with this lady then you need to decide is she operating as a childminder with occasional trips to your house, where she is self employed, sets the contract and is expected to cover all the legal and tax requirements and you simply pay a fee, or do you want her to operate as an employee of yours where you pay a minimum wage and you set the contract and cover all the tax/NI requirements.
For it to be legal - one of you needs to be responsible...
Everyone wants a nanny - but they cost more. If you can't afford it then you have to go childminder or nursery route...
I echo that her focus will always naturally be her own kids, her own families health/priorities - I would be very wary if she wasn't acting as a professional from the start so what would happen when something unexpected happens.

From my own experience, this whole set up would be a big fat NO.
Had a childminder (family friend) with own DC around the same age as mine. We paid going rate as she was fully qualified.

My DC was always 2nd to hers... we had no end of issues like nappy always full at pick up time, my toddler DC not wrapped in a blanket when asleep in buggy and left outside while her DC was wrapped up warm, not given food (that we had to provide) whilst her DC had a cooked lunch, she never greeted DC at dropp off but told me to sit my DC into the playpen... and then the lies! We discreetly changed to a nursery and never looked back!

Wow. She sounds a right find. Giving the professional nannies a bad name big time 🙄

How much per hour is she offering herself for

Yes you need to pay nmw as a minimum. Or you will be breaking the law

If you do this then all can work out

Maybe post the hours you need and @nannynick coul work out the cost for you

If she is ofsted registered, which you pay for then will help you to pay her

I can’t imagine yiu will find childcare fir two children for under £4.50 per child if use a cm

I'd imagine the min Ofsted ratios exist for a reason. No way would I be happy with anyone, earning no matter what, being responsible for 4 children under 5 including a newborn!!!

Legally she would have to be a childminder to look ok after your children in her home. Ofsted registered, hmrc registered as self employed to pay tax and ni and she could not have more than 3 under 5, including her own children.

Legally as a nanny working in your home, you have to pay her nmw plus tax, no, pension etc.

What happens when your child goes to school? I presume you will need her to do school drop offs and pick ups. How will she manage getting out and about with all of the children?

Yet another thread where nannies aren't valued. Nannying is my career, a career which I've worked really really hard at. Why would you want to pay an employee under minimum wage. It's illegal for a start. You've chosen to have 2 children and with that comes a cost. If you want luxury childcare then it is going to cost. Alternatively you could look at childminders (typically £4-6 per hour per child near me) or nursery (£50-60 per day near me) I'm not saying that childminders and nurseries aren't luxury mind you, just that a nanny is personal to you and can follow everything you want for your children. Childminders often have several children so their overall rate is more. A nanny needs to earn a living so deserves at least minimum wage (but a low wage round by me would be £10 ph)

Sounds like she's basically offering a childminder service without being registered or following the rules on ratios.

@Pumpfive

Yet another thread where nannies aren't valued. Nannying is my career, a career which I've worked really really hard at. Why would you want to pay an employee under minimum wage. It's illegal for a start. You've chosen to have 2 children and with that comes a cost. If you want luxury childcare then it is going to cost. Alternatively you could look at childminders (typically £4-6 per hour per child near me) or nursery (£50-60 per day near me) I'm not saying that childminders and nurseries aren't luxury mind you, just that a nanny is personal to you and can follow everything you want for your children. Childminders often have several children so their overall rate is more. A nanny needs to earn a living so deserves at least minimum wage (but a low wage round by me would be £10 ph)

I'm not a nanny but it did come across as complete CFery wanting to pay under minimum wage, especially for a job such as a nanny - caretaking of OP's children .

I’m a nanny and have taken my children to work with me. I have never been asked to work for less than minimum wage. If fact, I’ve always been paid at a very good rate of pay

She would be looking after your children. Treat her with the respect you’d expect your boss to treat you with