Nanny having operation- help please

[Goosethemoose]

Hi, our nanny is unexpectedly having an op and will need 8 weeks off, and then may not be able to lift (or certainly would prefer not to) after that.

How do we proceed? Totally stuck. Don’t want to lose her but can’t realistically have a nanny who won’t lift- DC are under 4, so it’s a safety issue. Don’t want to end up in a tribunal and want to do right by her, but need a solution until eldest starts school in Sept.

Please help, if anyone has had this situation or has some advice? Very stressed, we’ve had very little notice.

Even if it was classed as a disability, the requirement is to make "reasonable adjustments". I don't think it's possible to adjust her job to make it possible to look after toddlers without lifting.

Get some legal advice pronto.

But if she can’t lift she can’t nanny for toddlers, it’s unsafe all round, so you will need to terminate. Hopefully you can help with a bit of a payoff.

How old is your youngest? Obviously if they are 6 months they will need to be lifted but if they are 18 months-2ish then you can definitely work around it.

Yes, she has a contract- I need to check it but I think it only states SSP.

I use payroll software myself. I believe both we and she are insured- I hadn’t thought to check that.

Well, this is the issue. I’m not trying to do anything illegal or immoral. We need childcare- that’s why we pay her, she could get signed off for another 4, 8, etc weeks after the initial 8. No stability for the children, we can’t work without childcare… difficult to find temporary cover with no clear end date. It’s a mess.

I don’t know if nannymatters or nannytax will give one off HR advice but you could try. In your shoes we would pay our nanny SSP for the 8 weeks off sick and then need to re look at her role if she couldn’t lift our toddlers. In the meantime can you find emergency childcare? There are various nannying services that offer this.

Youngest is a very chunky young 2yo. Needs lifting for bath, and also in the playground- swings etc, but obviously not as much as a baby. But is very heavy when you DO have to pick them up.

@Goosethemoose

Youngest is a very chunky young 2yo. Needs lifting for bath, and also in the playground- swings etc, but obviously not as much as a baby. But is very heavy when you DO have to pick them up.

Surely not a huge deal for you to do bath times though? And just to skip the swings.

Speak to an agency, arrange a temporary nanny.

Well, it is a problem. We have the nanny to do the metaphorical heavy lifting in terms of outings, bath etc whilst we work (not always guaranteed to be around for bath, for example). So if the nanny can’t do those things, including potentially catching the child if the child jumps off the stairs unexpectedly/starts to fall down a slide/can’t lift buggy on and off the bus etc… I would say that person can’t do that job.

It does sound like you are keen to get rid of her rather than accommodate her recovery.

@busyeatingbiscuits

It does sound like you are keen to get rid of her rather than accommodate her recovery.

I think that’s unfair. It seems to me the priority for the OP is her children, as it should be.

@Goosethemoose

Yes, she has a contract- I need to check it but I think it only states SSP.

I use payroll software myself. I believe both we and she are insured- I hadn’t thought to check that.

Well, this is the issue. I’m not trying to do anything illegal or immoral. We need childcare- that’s why we pay her, she could get signed off for another 4, 8, etc weeks after the initial 8. No stability for the children, we can’t work without childcare… difficult to find temporary cover with no clear end date. It’s a mess.

That's also why an initial fit note from her doctor is so important. My DCs are slightly older and I'd be looking to get cover for the specified period and then if it's likely to go well beyond that, to terminate the contract. In your case with a 2 year old, if there's a high chance she can't lift anything for a long time then I'd likely be looking to end the contract for capability reasons. At that age he will still be needing help so many times a day, and while it can be worked around a bit, not full time. My mum can't lift things and from tiny the DCs felt it and would be helpful with things like climbing into car seats, but it still caused issues sometimes (little things like when they got stuck in a puddle, to a big one when there was an emergency evacuation of a train station). She's amazing with the DCs, but it's definitely a big limitation on the care you can give.

I’m wondering if the under 2 years part means we don’t need to provide a reason for termination of contract?

Dear lord that's depressing.
So you'd just let her go? I mean, if you're allowed to, then why not hey? I mean if the law says it's ok.

And while you're at it, get some legal and HR advice to make damn good and sure that you have no recourse. Like, using that money to hire in a replacement isn't an option, is it? How about an occupational therapist?
Did you know there are actual disabled parents out there who have limited movement, but still can take care of their children?

Are you even trying to find a work around?

*that SHE has no recourse.

Anger makes me typo

It’s tricky. As usual, there’s a bit of a backstory, and we’ve been very understanding recently and had to arrange a lot of emergency childcare to work around her situation before Christmas. Essentially, I was too lenient previously, and I think that’s clouding my judgment now.

This is difficult because obviously health comes first, but I want stability and to know what’s going on, to be able to plan ahead. I don’t want any injuries from someone overexerting themselves on my behalf. I don’t want to make what feel like unreasonable adjustments- bath time and lifting are necessary, IMO, for a 2yo- if someone refused to do them, we wouldn’t hire that person in the first place. I also want my children to have stability and clarity of who is their caregiver, instead of being shipped from pillar to post.

We’re more than happy to compensate for her position, shall we say. And the last thing I need is a tribunal. I don’t want her worried about her health, or money, or feeling stressed on the job. Feeling really caught in the middle of all of this.

OP, I am assuming we are taking a hysterectomy/hernia/prolapse repair.

I think that you are right that for a while the restrictions on her (probably not just lifting, also eg running after children, movements like pulling them back from the road when they try to cross too early etc) are not going to make this compatible with a toddler. Sometimes safety requires that you act quickly and physically. Sometimes toddlers sit down and refuse to walk. Sometimes they bolt.

Most people do need a nanny who is relatively physically capable with a toddler if they are looking after them for full days - you are not a bad person for thinking this. Lots of kids need a really decent run around and won't be happy sitting at home with a puzzle.

Plus, if your nanny cannot do the hours you need (ie effectively has to finish earlier than bathtime), that is not helpful either.

You need professional advice really, but I don't think this is disability discrimination. It's not as if you can parcel off all the hard bits to someone else throughout the day with a single employee. Employment law permitting, I'd tell her that you don't want to put her in harm's way and give her a really good leaving package.

Thank you, you’ve expressed it better than I could myself! Sleep has helped and I will investigate both her contract and where to get professional advice, today.

It’s not ideal, but these things happen.

Howe we, if she can’t lift she can’t do her job. 2 year olds need to be lifted several times a day.

SSP is about £100/week, factor that in for 8 weeks and a temp nanny and then just see how it goes. She may heal quickly and be able to come back, she may not and then not be able to perform properly for the foreseeable future - in which case you would been to dismiss on capability grounds. It may be in the middle. But you don’t need to decide now.

Just to say that I think that the key point is that she has already said that she does not want to lift long term.

Whatever her prospects of recovery and actual recovery, I think you can sensibly have a conversation now along the lines of:

• if you do not want to lift AT ALL EVER post op, this is just not going to work for you. You can try to encourage the toddler to walk/climb into car seat etc, fine, but the reality is that if she cannot keep him safe if he has climbed things or run into the road, you cannot employ her.

• you can support her to make adjustments by encouraging your toddler to walk where possible, BUT you employ her to look after a toddler when you are not there and you cannot guarantee the compliance of a toddler. So there will always be a risk that she might have to lift /run and get hurt if she is doing her job properly. Nor is it fair to toddler to never take them to the park etc.

Basically, put her on notice that this is your line of thinking. And let her know you would make her a payment equivalent to redundancy if she did need to retire early for poor health.

@busyeatingbiscuits

It does sound like you are keen to get rid of her rather than accommodate her recovery.

No it sounds like she want to pay a salary to someone who can do the actual job

OP unfortunately your nanny can’t for-fill her role is she can’t pick up your 2 year old. They need to be picked up countless times.

The law is pretty clear here, if she hasn’t reached 2 years then she has very little rights. You can just terminate.

I am looking for a nanny to work along side my regular nanny in swansea, Wales , but finding it so difficult. Seems no body wants to work or they are just time wasters. Who can I ask to be a nanny two days a week. Have done the sites

Do you want to keep her

I get you want stability for kids and obv picking them up if need be but sounds like you want to get rid

Can you get a temp in for 8w. Get old nanny back and see how she goes for a month

Tho equally if nanny says would prefer not to lift you may need to have a honest chat with her abs say she can’t do the job you employed her for

She obv doesn’t want to damage herself

Obv lifting in a bath is a no Go. Chikdren don’t need baths every day as long as obv wash /top and tail Esp as assume in nappies

Maybe she can go to the park with a friend

Thanks for the replies. I consulted an HR firm and we’ve decided to give her notice at the end of her sick pay- all seems amicable and fully legal. HR agree that lifting is part of the job and there’s no way around it. The children’s safety and also her health and safety have to come first.

It’s not that easy to find a temp for 8 weeks for a slightly odd working pattern, for a child who is nervous with new people, and the uncertainty and stress seemed unnecessary. Assuming the op goes ahead, she has 12 weeks to find a new, suitable role, and we’ve got 8 weeks to find a replacement as I’ll be taking some leave from work to cover full time. All sorted and thanks for the comments and support.

I assume she would be entitled to sick pay as per the terms of her contract, and once that runs out goes onto SSP. Whilst she is off sick I also assume you will have a temp nanny? If she is unable to lift, which is an essential criteria for a nanny, then she remains on sick leave. I can’t see how there’s any other way round it?

@Soontobe60

I assume she would be entitled to sick pay as per the terms of her contract, and once that runs out goes onto SSP. Whilst she is off sick I also assume you will have a temp nanny? If she is unable to lift, which is an essential criteria for a nanny, then she remains on sick leave. I can’t see how there’s any other way round it?

Op is giving her her notice at the end of sick leave