Do all childminders charge for hols?

[sheepgirl]

I just wanted to know if it is standrad practice for childminders to charge parents for when they go on holiday and for public holidays?

Good for you lenny girl and no I don't have an issue with the CM otherwise I wouldn't be entrusting her with my child's care. I don't feel I am the CMs employer and as a self-employed individual she should be treated as such by going getting paid for what she has worked. Ok I don't mind bending and paying for stat and bank hols but not for a 4 week hol.

I think that you are either an employee or you are not. You can not chop and change and take bits of being an employee that you like (i.e. paid holiday) and the bits of being self eployed that you like (i.e. setting your own schedule and choosing where to go and what to feed the kids -- if youprovide food). It seems to me that if I take you on as an employee that makes you a nanny and then I can tell you how to spend your day. You will take my child to the tennis lesson I choose, you will dress her how I say, oh and last but not least you will come to my house to get them dressed and fed for the day.

Take your pick, employee or self employed. But do not combined the benefits of each to suit you and not me.

all the one I contacted did and I agree with them.

So if her daily rate was higher but didn't charge for the 4 weeks hol and it worked out the same over the year would you pay that?

I think this is a big issue for you and will continue to irritate you so unless you can negotiate something with cm it's not really going to be a lasting childminding arrangement.

I'm a bit suprised that there haven't been more posts from cms charging for their hols as I'm sure on previous threads there were plenty that charged. It seemed to depend on which area you are in. I personally don't charge for holidays but, as said before, cms are self employed and can choose their t and c's to suit there business. I guess it's a good job you read your contract before deciding whether to sign it or not.

MOGS0 the CMs rate would have a bearing on whether I use them or not. So no hiding the cost wouldn't make a difference. CM knows she can't charge anymore in my area as she would be priced out of the market. As it is she charges top end for my area, which as I said before I do not begrudge paying as I will pay premium for good service......just not for work noot done.

I feel really reading this thread. I would hate to think that any parent would "use" me and discard me as sheepgirl is planning to do, although I do understand the reasons for doing it.

I work together with the parents I mind for. I care for their children in the way I would want someone to care for mine. I therefore think that having this big issue with the way your CM plans to charge you, even before you've started, is going to rankle.

And, no, I don't charge for my holidays or BHs, but accept that CMs are able to set their own terms and conditions. If parents don't like something, then find someone else you are happy with.

I also hate the fact that CMs have to continually justify everything that we do, again.

Can anyone give me some advise as I'm new to CMs? Started with mine in July this year. They told me they have 5 weeks leave off a year (which I have to pay for) and that they take 2 wks in Aug, 2 wks Xmas at and 1 week Easter. Today CM says she has a wk in October (not Easter now?!). This will mean that from jul to Dec this year, I will have paid CM 5 weeks hol in 5 mths. Do you think this is fair?

Pinkchill I think you need to read the entire of this thread to get an answer to your question as that is what we have been discussing.

thprisoner - I have 3 wks before I return to work and really like the CM, so why not go with her? I haven't even discuss the hol issue so who knows we may reach a compromise, otherwise I'm afraid it is a dog eat dog world out there.

SG - I guess my point is that my CMs 5 wks leave then starts again from Jan 08. Shd it not be 5 wks leave within the year that the contract started? ie, Jul 07 to Jul 08?

well i wouldn't pay 5 wks hol period, but if you think she is changing the terms of the contract you need to chat it through with her.

Pink: I think it depends on what the contract says. For example, if the contract you signed says that holiday year ran Jan-Jan, then I think you are just unlucky that you started in July (thus holiday left to take 2 weeks aug, 2 weeks xmas) - but this was I presume known at the time you signed the contract.
If the contract (written or verbal) states when holiday is taken, then I feel that the week in October is a change to the contract. I would not expect you to be charged for that week in Oct07, as under your contract (assuming the Jan-Jan holiday year was mentioned, see above) then you had not budgeted for that. It may be down to the goodwill of the childminder not to charge for that October week, as contract law can be tricky.

For those families who had been with the childminder in Jan07, they would be paying for 6 weeks holiday in Jan07-Jan08 period, assuming that holiday was taken at Easter 07. Does that make sense.

If CM won't write that week off (Oct 07) as a goodwill measure, what what happens if you don't pay? I would doubt that the amount would be sufficient to be worth while for the CM to pursue via small claims court.
You could try posting over in Legal, to see what the lawyer mumsnetters feel about the situation.

eleusis- no I certainly don't do that with the food or outings and infact am good at my job, love the children I mind and treat them equally to my dd. I only charge £3.10 per hour, where most CM here charge about £3.40. I also provide everything for that price, so charging for holidays (2 wks of) is not unfair, especially if you work out the cost of nappies, wipes, bags, food, outings, petrol, craft equipment etc, etc, etc. If parents had to provide nappies it would cost the difference in paying for holidays.

sheepgirl No it isn't time for me to return to nursing, I will decide that. Since your judgement is without having seen how I care for my children, you are not in a position to comment on it. If you read my OFSTED report you would realise that I do a good job.

I bit defensive there tori32 [hmmm]. Oh and I have to buy nappies etc for my baby anyway and the main issue there is IT'S FOR MY BABY. So if I have to provide these things then I am happy to do so. I don't think you can equate that to paying for holiday.

Thanks Nannynick: The contract doesn't specify whether hols run from Jan to Dec or from date of signature. It also doesn't specify when she takes holiday. CM was upfront about the 2 wks Aug and 2 wks Dec, which I thought was just unfortunate timing for me (although hoped CM might have waivered the 2 wks Aug as I'd only been with her for 3 wks when she went on hol) and I don't mind having Xmas off myself.

The contract does however say that I'm supposed to have 4 wks written notice of CMs leave. The week comm 22nd Oct was only sprung on me yesterday 'verbally' as in 'you haven't forgotten about my week off in October have you?!!!'. At no point has CM EVER mentioned this to me.

CM reckons now she never has time off at Easter. Very doubtless that CM has worked from Jan to Aug this year without any leave. Apparently though next year she is changing her week in Oct to a week in June!!!!! I just can't keep up with it all. What's even more annoying is the fact I only get 4 wks leave a year and started my new job in Jul will have only accrued 2.5 wks by end of Mar 08!!! (had to rely on Sister-in-law for Aug!

I think I'm going to look at a few nurseries now instead!!!!!! Don't like being told when I'm allowed my leave from CM (especially if it's all in the last 5 months of the year...)

Your words, Tori.

"Do you not realise that if a CM comes back from holiday skint that its your child who will suffer by having to eat cheap food, go out on less outings, and basically care would suffer. "

Perhaps you should reconsider your holiday budget. Or raise your hourly rate.

Wading in here a bit late but I just wanted to pick up on the comment that 'single parents get 80% of their c/care back' - that is bull and a false assumption. I also found the holiday terms welded into the contract I signed up to, thankfully I only require the cm until January and it is one of the main reasons I shall be discontinuing with the service after that time.

Many of us do not get any 'assistance' with childcare costs, forget 80% I would be happy with 20%!

I work on short contracts as I am self employed also and believe me when i say no-one pays me when I am not working. There are weeks that I work out that my c/minder makes more than me.

I appreciate we all have a job to do but if a practice is not 'standard' it is hard to stomach when you do come across it and I think this is the point sheepgirl is making.

I have been using CM for almost 7 years and this was the first time I have ever come across such a clause and I still can't believe I signed the contract. As already mentioned, we might choose to continue using said service but it sours relationships and is a great motivator to jump ship as soon as one can.

WELL IT IS d FOR ME TMRW AS MTG WITH THE CM SO I SHALL LET YOU KNOW THE OUTCOME OF OUR MTG.

By the way have also been looking into nurseries as a safety net if I do change in the summer and I worked out it would cost me the same amount of money

Message withdrawn

you won't have to pay all of the 5 or 4 weeks holiday if the contracts starts in jan and you've started in july. what nonsense is this.
you pay 4 or whetever holiday per year period.
so in your case as in that year you'll use the childminder for 6 months you'll have to pay for half of the hol. Anything different than that and it's illegal.

Pippi - can you provide a link to that law?

Surely a business can determine it's own contracts... it's only when a case gets to a court that a contract may be judged to be unfair. That's my understanding of it... but I'm not a lawyer... are you?

I'm not sure it is illegal It depends on what the contract says????

My childminder charges us full price for all holidays, and it does really piss me off to hand over a bunch of cash in return for nothing. We pay her £5 an hour for each child, which is a fair bit considering all she does is pick them up (with her own children) supervise them for a couple of hours and give them tea. Now we do like her, and she has lovely children, but the holiday thing seriously sours the relationship. We decided to rethink whether we wanted to use her services because of this factor this summer, and ended up deciding we would, as the children have had a lot of change to put up with recently. I noticed that when we signed the contract this time it says £5 per child everywhere except the holiday bit where it just says £5. I think that this should mean we pay half, but she charged us the full whack both when she took holiday and when we did (these are all school holidays, and we don't really want her to look after the children then, because her rates are over double the playschemes etc). We were too surprised to argue - as again we hadn't read that bit of the contract too well, because moving from a nanny to a childminder we had assumed that we no longer paid holidays. I would much rather pay more on a term time only deal, it just feels like we are completely being taken advantage of. We are going to look at whether we can cope with an au pair.

OO! JUST ADD TO ADD MY BIT.I now charge full rate 10 days a year and 10 days unpaid, shared out of the year fairly depending on what contracts I have at the time. I pick most my hols 15 months ahead, eg sept for coming jan to DEC, after consulting with paretns to see if I can coincide my hols with any of theirs. have decided to take a fortnight next Aug, first week conincides with 3 parents so charging full( as they have no other childcare costs then), second week only with one so only 2 days paid, 3 days unpaid etc. I did not used to charge for my only two weeks a year and also gave parents 2 weeks unpaid, Ended up one year instead of earning approx £800 for 5 weeks period jan and dec , I had one week off but earnt only £300 due to paretns time of and me not charging hol pay. Could not afford that loss again, and I do budget well but nightnare.
As regards when contract starts for holidays as I plan so far forward in advance, I presume paretns are agreeing to pay me the days I give them for following year, and that they trust I would never rip them off. Though regarding 'what if you leave after 6 months' may I say I have never heard of a parent asking a CM on leaving if they owe any holiday pay? though have often worked out for other minders, when parents feel they have over paid. As a self employed person you have to guess your possible incomes and chose rates that are affordable over a whole year.
A parent starting in Septmeber would not want to pay £6 an hour if another parent who sarted in Feb pays only £2 to compensate a CM low earning year etc. Guess what I mean is make sure you are happy with what you are paying before you sign, if you do sign first then sort it during settling in period or end it before full contract starts. It is not nice as a minder to feel that you are suddenly being questioned about charges and policies etc once a child has settled in and a rapport established, as then you feel that you were picked in a rush because anything would do, not because someone choose you specifically because you would be the best possible carer for their child while they were at work etc.