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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Paying childminders holidays

46 replies

Rainbowchampagne · 15/06/2020 18:32

I’ve met with some childminders but my favourite charges for my child not being there due to our holidays (completely understandable) but she also charges for her own (6 weeks!) The others I met with didn’t charge for their holidays, but have other drawbacks which is why I’m asking about this.

Is this fairly standard practice? I thought it’s unusual to charge for any service when you’re not providing it but I’m very new to this!

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LucieLucie · 31/07/2020 23:37

@Rainbowchampagne

No it's not standard practice and it is in fact unlawful to charge for a service you are unable to provide.

CMs are self employed and make their own rules of course, they can ask for the moon on a stick in a contract but if the terms are unlawful and go against consumer law then it's unenforceable and fees can be refunded if action taken.

As an honest Cm who understands how self employment should work, it angers me to hear of greedy unprofessional practices like this happening. I can only guess she's in an area of high demand and can get away with it.

The CMA have ruled on it in the last week after numerous complaints from parents about being charged fees during closing. It's the same thing.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment data/file/904194/Opennletter tooNursery anddEarly Yearss_settings.pdf

LucieLucie · 31/07/2020 23:40

@jannier
I know this is an older thread but if you're a Cm you really should know that CMs as are all self employed people who provide a contracted service are bound by the terms of consumer law in the uk.

It's rather worrying seeing you say "there's no law" ...sorry but there is. Failure to abide by it could land you in trouble when you are ordered to refund clients who have been unlawfully charged.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment data/file/904194/Opennletter tooNursery anddEarly Yearss_settings.pdf

jannier · 01/08/2020 09:27

@LucieLucie.
The CMA open letter was about terms forced on parents in shut down not on terms discussed and agreed so nurseries saying pay us to reserve your space after lockdown. Wider clarity has yet to be made on holiday pay. Parents will loose out in many cases if it is no longer allowed becouse hourly rates will go up my holiday currently equates to 40p an hour but those who dont charge currently charge 50p more than me and take 6 weeks off, I take 4....if I put my rate up it will be by 50p to bring in line with others and I'll no longer have to worry if I need or want to take an extra week or two. Parents will then be less likely to match my holiday and have to pay inflated prices for holiday cover...in my area £1 more than going rate

caspiansghost · 01/08/2020 10:08

I suppose you've seen Sarah Neville's interpretation of the CMA letter, Lucie.
She's not God and she makes some very dubious leaps sometimes. Her training at the beginning of the pandemic was pure hysteria.
The CMA didn't say it was illegal to charge for holidays and bank holidays. It didn't mention them. Sarah just took it upon herself to lecture us all on what she thought it meant.
There's nothing honest about putting words in the CMA's mouth and using it to attack other childminders.

jannier · 02/08/2020 18:33

A cm in our group rang pacey on Friday they are currently saying they will persue legal action if a parent does not honour the contracts including holiday and bank holiday pay issues. In their opinion the open letter just refers to conditions imposed that are not covered by the contract.

Tanith · 14/08/2020 18:25

It sounds as though PACEY have now had it confirmed that the CMA letter applies only to charges and contracts during Lockdown.

They've sent a letter round to members:
Please do take a look at the additional support we have produced for members who may still be trying to get their heads around the recent CMA advice on childcare contracts, cancellations and refunds during the pandemic. This all got a lot of media and online attention, much of which inaccurately interpreted what the CMA actually said. We have taken time to set this out in more detail for you and to reassure you that PACEY’s model contracts, reviewed by our legal services team, meet the CMA’s requirements. It's also important to remember that the advice given by the CMA is specifically about charges and contracts during lockdown. If you are still uncertain, please take a look in MyPACEY.

MonkeysAllGoWoo · 14/08/2020 18:36

Ive had three CM. Each has had 20 days to match statutory. Unfair if CM has more annual leave than parents do.

I have never seen a CM charge for holidays in all my searching. It's taking the piss and she's only doing it because she is getting away with it. Unless she is worth her weight in gold, use someone else.

jannier · 14/08/2020 19:04

@MonkeysAllGoWoo.
Plenty do charge it's not unreasonable if the overall price you pay is comparable annually to thoese who dont charge. 6 weeks does seem excessive as hard for parents to match.

Tanith · 14/08/2020 20:32

"Unfair if CM has more annual leave than parents do. "

Why?

MonkeysAllGoWoo · 14/08/2020 21:32

@jannier true. But hourly rate appears the same?

@Tanith well some people don't have other childcare. If CM takes 6 weeks but I only have 4. There's a two week issue brewing.

jannier · 14/08/2020 23:05

[quote MonkeysAllGoWoo]@jannier true. But hourly rate appears the same?

@Tanith well some people don't have other childcare. If CM takes 6 weeks but I only have 4. There's a two week issue brewing. [/quote]
The op dosent talk about the price so we dont know how that compairs....you also have to take into account on annualised figures everything that is included food nappies outings etc.

If there are 2 parents often they take 2 weeks together and 1 week each separately so have another week to take ....or more as many have 5 weeks not 4.

Bellebelle · 14/08/2020 23:17

Our CM takes 4 weeks holiday a year, 1 week at Christmas, 1 week at Easter and 2 weeks in summer. She always consults with all the parents first well in advance on the weeks she’s taking to try and ensure that we can book holidays at the same time if we want to.

I’ve never had an issue paying her for her holidays and would have thought it a bit odd not to. DH and I get paid for our holidays when we’re not providing our employers with our services so why would it be any different?

MonkeysAllGoWoo · 14/08/2020 23:32

@Rainbowchampagne

Thanks for the replies!

They all charge £4-£5 per hour and she is £4 but that’s not including any meals.

The main bonus is she is in my area of the city there don’t seem to be many so maybe that’s why she can charge it.

I thought 6 weeks was excessive! A single parent would be a bit stuffed, me and DH would have to split our holidays which would be rubbish.

My second favourite is outside of our district and out of both mine and DH way but not horrendously so. But it would mean I would have to choose preschool & primary school in that area at a later date.

I’m looking for end of Nov, so maybe it might be feasible to wait for others 🤔

@jannier OP does state prices here.

Tanith · 15/08/2020 09:15

"Tanith well some people don't have other childcare. If CM takes 6 weeks but I only have 4. There's a two week issue brewing."

That's not the childminder's problem, though.

There's nothing unfair about it if holidays are clear at the start and contracts are signed.

jannier · 15/08/2020 09:49

A 40 hour contract for 52 weeks at £4 is 8320 a 46 week contract (so holiday unpaid) is 9200.....so if shes charging for her 6 weeks but charging £4 even against a cm having 6 weeks not charging at £5 the op would be better off. If she had to pay childcare to someone else for 2 weeks she would have £880 to do it

Skyliner001 · 15/08/2020 09:50

I might consider paying four but not six.

jannier · 15/08/2020 09:50

Sorry meant that against a 46 week contract at £5

Fatted · 15/08/2020 10:01

Bloody hell, my CM usually only takes off a week at Christmas, a week around Easter and a week in the summer holidays. She charges for bank holidays, but not her holidays.

I know she is the most local one to you and from what you say the cheapest. But do factor in all of the hidden extras like having to pay for meals that aren't included, any days out and trips etc. It is so important to have a CM that you are absolutely 100% happy with. If there is anything you're not happy with, it's better to look elsewhere.

jannier · 15/08/2020 10:53

@Fatted....
Wow a cm how manages on typically a 50 to 60 hour week factoring cleaning, paperwork, training and only takes off 3 weeks....one the hugely hectic non relaxing Christmas. I would worry about burn out, her health and long term sustainability. I hope you get together with the other parents to at least give her a few extra days off......she probably only dies this becouse she dosent earn enough to take a break poor woman.

NewnameNelly · 15/08/2020 11:12

A lot of childminder bashing on here, often CM do not provide meals for under 2's due to allergies. I would rather I know what my DC was eating god forbid they go in to anaphylaxis, it isn't the CM being lazy, rather keeping your child safe!

Tanith · 15/08/2020 12:05

The differences between individual childminders is really important. We don't all offer the same service and we generally charge accordingly to cover the service we provide.

If a childminder requires 6 weeks holiday and you don't want this, you choose someone else. It doesn't make either party wrong, just that you have different requirements.
Some childminders do need that longer break: I know one who offers respite care, including overnight and weekends, for children with severe additional needs. Who are we to tell her she's unfair for taking extra breaks? It works for her and her clients.

So long as it's clear at the start and contracts reflect this, I can't see what's unfair about it.

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