Long term effects of early, extensive childcare

[mikidora]

ifstudies.org/blog/measuring-the-long-term-effects-of-early-extensive-day-care

Canadian study - Quebec offered free full-working-day child care for ALL under 5s back in 1997 - 2 decades on the results are quite clear - those children that were put into long-hours care from their early months for most of the week “revealed significant increases in anxiety, hyperactivity and aggression” compared to those that weren’t. Crucially - this long term study shows that these adverse effects persist into adolescence and beyond.

Basically - IF, as a parent(s)/prospective parent(s) you have a choice - cut down work- do a day each separately at home, get relatives in to help if you can and minimise the time your 0-3 yr old spends in ALL DAY 9-5+ childcare.

I know there will be a flurry of “my child is fine...” responses but the point of this study is that they have a large sample size. Much more objective than one parent’s view. This is an overall trend when looking at thousands of children over many years.

I understand many truly don’t have a choice (single parents might well often fall into this category) and must use this kind of extensive child care but if you do have a choice - this makes for sobering reading.

But @Lemongrasssugar, surely you can see that everything you say is about neglectful parenting, not the fact of using childcare?

It is not normal for parents to attempt to bring in a child with measles daily and have to be turned away, or not to pick up their ill children from childcare, or not to brush their children's hair or bath them. Do you honestly think that these children would be having a lovely, attentively-parented life if they were kept at home rather than looked after in a childcare scenario?

Quebec isn’t really a prosperous part of Canada over all and the average family size is larger than is average in the Western world The free childcare was over subscribed by families with chaotic lifestyles / large families which is known to increase anxiety in children. If you want proper studies in the long term affects of childcare you are better off reading scandinavian studies. These tend to be larger and seem to confirm that long term childcare, particularly with older parents, is associated with better long term outcomes for kids.

My 2 year old DD goes to preschool for 15 hours a week and I can genuinely say that she is flourishing there.

However, she went to nursery for 2 days a week from 6 months old and I am not sure whether that was the right thing for her at all.

Look... people need to do what they need to do. If you need to go to work to heat the house and put food in your kids belly then it's need to be done. I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty for a choice they really haven't got.... BUT... I do genuinely feel that kids are better off spending more time with mum and dad than in a care setting where they are one of many. No one loves your child more than you do and I think children benefit hugely having that love around as much as possible.

@Hugsgalore - I love my DT’s more than anything but didn’t mean I couldn’t continue with my career whilst they were expertly looked after by well trained experienced nursery staff. Believe it or not you can love your DC’s and work full time. I’m lucky - my DT’s are at Uni so I can say that full time nursery doesn’t damage them - DD is laughing reading this over my shoulder!

@Parker231 I never said anywhere in my post that people who put their children into a creche love them less than people who don't. Every one needs to do what they need to do. If you felt that you needed to work full time then you did what suited YOU best...

I didn’t to work. I chose to.

I honestly don't think many people would actively choose to put their child/ren in full time nursery care - Monday-Friday,
9-5 (or more realistically: 8-6).

I certainly don't think many people would choose to start doing it when they're only months old, and/or long term.

If you had a choice - and the money to fund your choices - I do believe most people would go part time, opt for in-home care or stay at home themselves.

Clearly many people don't have a choice, and many people have good experiences of nurseries.

But a full day, 5 days a week? I don't think anyone can say that is optimum for a baby or child.

@OneTwoThreeDoeRayMe parker just said she did exactly that.
@Parker231 there was obviously something that made you chose working full time over spending more time at home with your children? You said you didn't need the money so what was it that made you go back to work? The need to feel like you could do it all? That you could have the career, the nice home, the holidays? The need to feel more fulfilled?

Hugsgalore - does anyone ask her husband whether he worked full time instead of looking after the kids for 'the holidays' and whether he was trying to 'have it all?'.

There's such a level of sexism in these god damn debates.

(yes, I'm aware I'm making a judgement that @Parker231 is a married straight woman. Sorry if that's not the case).

DH and I both wanted to continue with our careers which in the earlier stages couldn’t be done part time or after time out. We were no different from many our friends and family members.

@Hugsgalore - yes, Parker chose to work. That's not unusual. I hear many men do that, too.

My point was that - not many people would actively choose to put their child in a nursery full time, from infancy for an extended period.

If you had the money, the vast majority would choose in-home, 1-on-1 professionally qualified care, over a nursery, for obvious reasons.

I agree. I say this as a parent who used childcare more often than I would have liked due to the necessity of working. Modern life means this is the case for many people and if living costs don't go down, or wages don't rise significantly , it is going to be the future.
My DC did not go to full time childcare but I still feel like they spent more time there than was the right balance.

onetwo we could have afforded one to one professional care but we chose the local village nursery because for us and our very sociable DS that was the obvious choice.

We live in a small village. The nursery is outstanding and most of the village kids go there and then on to the local school. Childcare has not damaged these children. They've thrived....that clear to see as they've progressed.

Both me and Dh chose to continue working full time at the same organisation. However, I'm the only one who's had their working patterns discussed and commented on. Funny that......🙄

onetwo

I have a number of friends who chose to put their children in full time 8-6 nursery from 6-9 months old. They could have afforded a nanny or for one of them to give up work but they didn't want to.

I don't understand why you find that so hard to believe!

My DH and I are able to compress our hours to do 4.5 days in 4 which works well for us and means 3 days in nursery. But we work in a sector that allows us to do that with minimal impact on our careers, which our friends don't.

hugsgalore I wonder if anyone ever asks men if they're working for the nice house and holidays 🙄

I returned to work because I bloody love my job and I've worked hard to get to this position. It was as simple as that.

Debates like these are sexist BS designed to make women feel guilty for having to/choosing to work. Bet they don’t discuss this crap on DadsNet!

Hmmm it worries me but I was worried anyway
My son will be doing nursery 7:30am to 5pm 3 days a week at 13 months old and then 2 further days at my parents ( which I am super grateful for )
It’s needs must I need to go back to work.
But I will have a common sense approach if he suffers clearly as a result a new nursery will be looked at or potentially I will try working less hours ( though financially will be troublesome to say the least )
He comes first but it’s a case of paying the mortgage and eating vs how he is doing.

I am hopeful that he is going to cope beautifully as he is a very social and bold baby 🤞

A useful guide to evaluating research is to query where the research came from, what it’s source of funding was and what the external evaluation of the study’s parameters were.

For what it is worth - this study was produced and funded by an organisation that promotes conservative American family values. That is a significant determinant of the kind of findings it would accept promote and speak about

I wonder if anyone ever asks men if they're working for the nice house and holidays

Nah, men are allowed to be Manly Providers, whereas women who work unless their Manly Providers don't provide sufficiently, are in it for the cars, holidays and manicures. Oh, or selfish career ambitions.

I agree, why is it so hard to believe that people not just women, remember voluntarily put their children in childcare? It no more occurred to me than it did to my DH to scale back my career because we had a child.

You said you didn't need the money so what was it that made you go back to work? The need to feel like you could do it all? That you could have the career, the nice home, the holidays? The need to feel more fulfilled?

Evidence that shows the many links (causal in some cases as described by the LSE) between household income and expenditure per child and a wide range of outcomes for those children?

I could reduce the work I do. I don’t, because Financial security is very important to me and one of the most important things I can provide to my children. I can think of few things more stressful and anxiety inducing than trying to live on one salary and having constant fear that the person working would lose their job.
Some people don’t really care about this, and that’s fine. But we’re not all the same.

And yes, I want my children to have the best house we can afford. I want to be able to go on holiday. I want to be able to take my broken car to the garage and know I can pay the repairs. These things don’t make you a cold hearted materialist

The premise of this entire conversation is sexist. But more importantly the “research” comes out of a conservative right wing think tank. I’m amazed it’s validity and the heavily gendered premises aren’t making the vast majority of people interpret it differently.

We absolutely chose for DD to go to nursery full-time (8-5, 5 days a week) from about 9 months. Finances not a consideration. Neither of us wanted to stay home.

We're lucky in that DD loves nursery. She gets lots of stimulation, and I don't think it's bad for a PFB and first grandchild to learn to take her turn sometimes! She has our full attention for breakfast and then in the evening, and all of the weekend.

Completely agree that so much of this conversation is sexist.

Age 15: Work hard in school, get good results!

Age 17: Choose a good university, and a degree subject that will get you a good job!

Age 22: Make sure to get a good job with good prospect!

Age 25: Work really hard, get that promotion, get that professional qualification!

Age 30: Oh... You're going back to work? Full time? Well I guess, if you have to...

It's all a load of bullshit.

@MindyStClaire Well said! I didn’t waste five years of my life training to not actually use my qualification.