Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Complicated one. Pre paid childminder, turned out to be wrong decision.

31 replies

Wiltshiremum83 · 31/07/2019 00:36

Hi. Before I start my query I want to add some info.
We've been with our childminder for over 4 years (with our 2 sons whom she looked after one at a time as youngest started when eldest left for school).
We have a contract and have always paid as per this, weekly in advance (ie pay on Monday for that week).
Despite a few minor niggles over the years (none ever serious enough to bring up) we have been happy with the care provided.

This year our youngest became eligible for 30 hours free care, this saves us alot of money and also meant we were no longer entitled to (the very small amount we were eligible for) tax credits. Great in term times but very costly in school holidays when she looks after both our children and the free hours don't apply This year rather than pay weekly I thought I'd be organised and pay her the full amount in advance as I'd saved up some money. I paid 2 weeks before the start of the chargeable care period (which begins 5th Aug as she is on holiday first week of school hols).
However 8 days prior to the care period I was advised (by gov.uk after applying for my latest 30 hours code) that I was now eligable for tax free childcare for any amounts I paid over the 30 hours. Doing this would save us around £100 over the school holiday period, money we could really do with. But of course I've already paid her so I can't claim this as to do so I need to pay her via the gov tax free account. I contacted her immediately by text to say I'd been signed up for this , she'd receive the same amount herself but i'd save £100 if she might be able to refund me so it could be paid via the tax free account as I'd been advised to do. She replied to say she couldn't refund it as she'd used the money already whilst she was on holiday that week.

Basically I want to see what others think, am I being unreasonable asking for the money back to then pay her straight away from a different account? Part of me thinks I am as it was my choice to pay well in advance as it wasn't required or requested, but then again that's the point, I didnt even need to have paid her ANY of what I've paid already, my contract states I pay weekly and the first payment for this isn't due until 5th August, whereas I've paid up until the end of the first week of Sept. And I'm not asking her to refund so I can keep it, I'm asking her to refund it so I can pay via another method, she'd have the same amount of money and still before it was due with only minimal fuss to herself.

I don't know whether to push further or just begrudgingly accept it, the tax free care won't help us much for the rest of the year as careful planning and recently reducing my working hours means we don't go over our 30 hours free during term times, it will help next summer hols but that's all really. Any thoughts? Nice responses only please, I've been reading some other posts and I'd appreciate the irrelevant snide remarks be avoided as no one benefits, I'm doing my best as I'm sure all mums on this forum are too. Many thanks.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

MyDcAreMarvel · 31/07/2019 00:41

You should have stayed on tax credits they are based on income not childcare costs. You divide the whole year by 52 and give that as the weekly cost.

MyDcAreMarvel · 31/07/2019 00:42

Tax credits plus 30 hours I mean not tax free childcare.

Original poster

Wiltshiremum83 · 31/07/2019 07:38

To clarify, we didn't choose to come off tax credits, we were o ny ever eligible for the childcare part of tax credits and received about £50 a month towards our childcare now that we have 30 hours free even with the expense since school holidays we're not eligle for any tax credits. I'm not sure why but we've always seemed to not quite be eligble for much even though we don't earn masses and other friends and family seemed to get lots of help. I'd never thought of using the tax free childcare, it's very likely we'd have actually been better off on this for some time, when I updated my 30 hours free account (which you have to do every 3 months) I received the code for this and a message to say we'd been automatically signed up for tax free childcare as now that we dont get tax credits we're now eligble.

OP posts:

AuntieMaggie · 31/07/2019 07:43

I think you just have to accept you've made a mistake - it's not fair to expect the childminder to have the inconvenience of paying you back and then waiting to be paid again. It's not like it will be instant - there will be a delay of a few days at least and if she doesn't have the money she doesn't have the money.

Snazzygoldfish · 31/07/2019 07:44

Gosh that's hard. I think you have to suck it up though as if she hasn't got the money she can't refund you presumably without taking out a loan. She's probably also losing out massively on offering you the full 30 hours during the term-time. I know our nursery loses a huge amount and only offers the 15 hours as they'd go under if they didn't charge extra on the additional hours.

Much sympathy to you though.

NoSquirrels · 31/07/2019 07:46

with only minimal fuss to herself

It’s not though, is it? As you don’t have sight of her finances, you don’t know how it would affect her. Yes, she’s received it well in advance iof your contractual obligation but once it’s paid it’s reasonable for her to assume she can spend it - so she did, she says. Maybe she splashed out in things she’d have scrimped on otherwise - that’s her choice and not your business. If she doesn’t have it to repay you then she can’t.

If she had it to give back and was happy to, fair enough . You’re not wrong for asking. But she’s said no so you have to accept with good grace.

Imagine paying your gas bill early, or any other bill to someone. You couldn’t get it back once paid.

DocusDiplo · 31/07/2019 07:55

Just leave it. Enjoy your summer.

Chocolatedaim · 31/07/2019 08:03

It’s such a pain (I’m a CM and parent so I sympathise with you and your childminder Op)
Tax free childcare can take a while to sort out the first payment, so your CM, if she did have £100, could potentially be out of pocket for over a week, if not longer.
I think you have just got to leave it. Sorry!

horizontilting · 31/07/2019 08:18

Pay her again and then she can pay you back when it comes through.

MyDcAreMarvel · 31/07/2019 11:50

To clarify, we didn't choose to come off tax credits, we were o ny ever eligible for the childcare part of tax credits and received about £50 a month towards our childcare now that we have 30 hours free even with the expense since school holidays we're not eligle for any tax credits.
You were given incorrect information, your eligibility for tax credits for childcare is not based on the cost of childcare. It’s based on your earnings amount if children etc.
For example say you used to pay £200 a week term time then £100 a week school holidays but know with 30 hours you have no costs in term time.
You would still have 15 weeks at £100 a week childcare to pay for so you should have told tax credits your costs were £28 a week (£1500 divided by 52)
Why did you think you didn’t qualify?

MyDcAreMarvel · 31/07/2019 11:51

No tax free childcare is much less than wtc.

ChildminderMum · 31/07/2019 14:24

Why don't you pay her again through TFC, then she can refund you the original amount once the TFC payment clears?

Original poster

Wiltshiremum83 · 31/07/2019 22:41

Our tax credits statement clearly says this and has done so since we started receiving it 6 years ago. The tax credits amount is reduced to zero due to our wages and only the childcare element of tax credits remains payable. It's not a difficult thing to read on the statement.

OP posts:

MyDcAreMarvel · 31/07/2019 22:47

Yes but you could have claimed childcare only for the holidays, you divide it by 52.

Original poster

Wiltshiremum83 · 31/07/2019 22:56

Hi everyone thanks for the replies. I dont want to mess her about and didn't know the first payment can take a while (the account implies it's instant). I didn't know about it a week ago so although the money would help we won't be struggling more than we expected to be this summer. For those though who keep mentioning the tax credits as per my original post we were only ever eligble for the childcare element of working tax credits, this has been clearly stated on every statement we've received over 6 years of claiming it and to be honest it's been a nightmare and there have been countless errors, incorrect payments and miss information over those years (including them taking 10 months to update their system after I repeatedly advised them that I was no longer on maternity leave but that's a whole other issue!). I wish I'd swapped to tax free child care ages ago as it seems alot easier.

OP posts:

Original poster

Wiltshiremum83 · 31/07/2019 23:05

Yes I know that and as soon as the 30 hours kicked in we updated tax credits with the new figure (yearly total divided by 52), however it isn't a big enough amount to qualify us for the childcare element of tax credits. They work out a total payment, then take off that a certain amount depending on your combined wage, after this calculation we were left with nothing. I have a feeling our wages are a tiny bit over the threshold however no one could ever tell me the threshold (it would be frustrating to know that working an hour a week less would have made life easier all round!) I know people who earn similar amounts to seem to be able to claim lots of help towards childcare. It's only just been worth working but as I've been in my job so many years I didn't want to throw it away for the sake of struggling a few years, I reduced my hours as much as possible so I still get time with my boys and time to work and we've just struggled through.

OP posts:

roses2 · 01/08/2019 20:31

Could you over pay her this month then reduce next months bill?

Looneytune253 · 05/08/2019 10:54

Could you not offer to pay again then she will refund you once if comes through? That would be more fair on her

Looneytune253 · 05/08/2019 10:54

Could you not offer to pay again then she will refund you once if comes through? That would be more fair on her

notthemum · 21/08/2019 09:01

A bit much to ask her to refund it but
The 30 hours free are supposed to be for a particular child.
When you are asked for an audit by your local council you have to show them what you spent the money on for that child.
Therefore whilst she is under no obligation to refund you (sorry) the money shouldn't have been spent on her holiday.

Looneytune253 · 21/08/2019 09:09

@notthemum but that is the childminders wage for her time? Of course she can spend it on whatever she likes? A parent can't dictate where their fees go???

itsaboojum · 21/08/2019 11:37

"When you are asked for an audit by your local council you have to show them what you spent the money on for that child."

No. This is incorrect.

The only requirement to show evidence of spending on a particular child is where the child is in receipt of Disability Access Funding or Early Years Pupil Premium payments.

It has nothing to do with the 30 hour funding, nor Tax Free Childcare for that matter.

notthemum · 21/08/2019 13:15

Itsaboojum.
I agree that it is nothing to do with the tax free childcare aas have used this.
However I spoke to the lady who does the audits and she directly said that she would want to see that the money that the council pay for a particular child is used for that child.

Looneytune253 · 21/08/2019 13:35

@notthemum sorry but I'm a childminder and I don't have to justify my wage at all!! If The council give me £x per hour to provide the funding, then it's up to me how I spend the money. Mostly on myself and my family to be fair as that is my wage. I am not employed by the council but how would you feel if your employer asked to see how you spent the wage they paid you? I'm guessing you would laugh, hard!! I agree with the pp tho, I'm guessing somewhere along the line you've got confused with eypp or any extra disability funding a child may get as that would need to be justified if audited.

itsaboojum · 21/08/2019 13:40

30 hour funding payments cover a child’s attendance : nothing more, nothing less. The childcare provider does not have to show what they spent the money on. As Looneytune says, it’s payment for providing the service, not for purchasing resources, etc.

What the childcare provider has to prove is that the child attends for the hours claimed.

I can only assume your audit lady meant the funded hours have to be claimed for the named child: ie they are not transferable to a sibling or other child.

Flip

1 2