fees on bank holidays

[ditzyprincess]

hi im a newbie cm what do you girls charge for bank holidays and family holidays and what about sick days ? also does anyone charge a month upfront and then weekly in advance ?

hi welcome to mumsnet

i charge full fees for bank holidays
full fees if the children are on holiday
half fees for my 4 weeks holiday
no fees if i am off sick but full fees if the child is off sick

some of my parents pay me a month in front as they get paid monthly and this suits them better but most parents pay on their childs first day of care for that week

As a parent, I would not be happy to pay anything for your holidays. But, I'd pay the rest of what dmo says.

most parents get full pay from work for holidays so they dont mind and often book the same weeks as me off so they dont have to find cover

i give holiday dates out on the first week of january every year

As a parent, I pay

full fees for bank holidays
no fees if my cm is off sick, but full fees if it's ds who is ill
half-fees for school holidays (I work in a school) so ds is home with me, with the proviso that I can use the place for 2 1/2 days a week if I need it)

The issue of holidays doesn't come up, but as I understand it, the ncma has a suggestion of what holidays to charge on their contracts.

ditzy if you email me will send you copy of all my policies and such that I give to mentees.

[email protected]

The way I see it is either you run your own business and provide a service OR you are an employee. Paid holidays are a perk of being employed.

I realise that some childminders charge for their holidays and some don't. I'm just proving another view point so that OP has an idea a various views. It is probably best to see what other local childminders charge and follow suit.

Incidentally, I also think that paid BAnk Holidays are a perk for employees only, but I know that most childminders do charge for them, so I accept it as industry standard. But, I draw the line on being paid for your own holidays.

As a parent who uses a childminder, mine never charged me for days not used.

Ie: I used to use her 4 days a week when I was busy... now it's down to 2 days over the summer..... last year if she didn't have ds she didn't want paid [I am a student therefore not earning a wage] & she said she doesn't do this for anyone else [her other mindees mums are all teachers therefore get paid over the summer]

This year, however she said she needed paid whether I use her the 2 days or not.. so I am not earning money, but have to pay her to mind ds 2 days a week.... as she insists on keeping all mindees 2 days a week over the summer holidays to make it easier for them to stay in routine.

I would not be happy to pay her if she told me she was going to be off a week but still wanted paid.

Although we are not employees we are not like other self-employed trades either. Most people who are self-employed are able to take on extra work at certain times of the year to make up for loss of income during holidays.

Professional Childminders CAN'T do that because a) it would go against the required child ratios b) it would be impossible to provide a quality service with each child receiving the attention (s)he deserves.

Those childminders that don't charge during the holidays, are likely to have a higher hourly rate to start with to compensate.

Bank Holidays I charge full fees when they occur on a contracted day. Obviously only those families who would have used a place on the day if it wasn't a bank holiday are expected to pay. xmas eve to new years eve I charge at half fees and i charge 1/2 fees for one bank holiday and 4 additional days at Easter. I don't charge any other time I am closed.

I expect a months deposit to reserve a place, which I keep until the final day of childcare. Weekly payers choose which day of the week they want to pay and pay the week before. monthly payers pay at the end of the preceding month or at the beginning of the current month.

I think you make a valid point about how much they chaarge and people who don't charge hols may have a higher hourly rate. As a parent, you do of course have to look at the who package cost on say an annual basis. Childminders in my area are around £5 or £6 per hour per child. As it is cheaper to have a live in nanny, that is what we have. But, I did use a childminder until my first child was 14 months. She did not charge for her hols. And, in fact, would arrange cover for all the mindees when she went on hols -- a service well wotrh paying for in my opinion.

I think you are taking the mick if you want to be an employee when that suits and then you want to be like a business owner when that suits.

You can pick up extra work at busier times by extending your hours. A plumber doesn't pick up extra work by fixing two people's toilets at the same time. He takes on more jobs by working longer hours.

Alya99

You charge from Xmas eve to NYE????

Why???? It's not as if you will be working...

I know it's very different from what my c/minder does.

I have no qualms whatsoever about paying when she should have the kids but doesn't. ie: we are on holidays, we decide to keep ds at home for a day etc....

It's the paying for bank holidays when everyone is off, or the week between Xmas & NY again when everyone is off, or paying a c/minder for her holidays...

Also, when dmo says most parents get paid for holidays, they are employees.. yet c/minders always say how they are self employed. Dh who is self employed does not get paid for holidays or days off.

Yep, that's righ HElen. Employee or business owner. Take your pick. But not the benefits of both and the responsibilities of neither.

If a chilminder is available to work and I don't show up, I shall pay her full fees. If she is not available and I have to make my own arrangements, well, then there won't be any money with which ti pay her because I am paying someone else to do the job she isn't available for.

That's right.

Yet if we have to pay c/minder for her holidays, then pay someone else to look after the kids.... what's the point?? We'll be earning all we need to pay 2 c/minders & not much more.

I know dmo also said most parents book their holidays to suit the c/minder, but there are some people who work places who have set holidays. I know the last place I worked had 2 weeks @ Xmas 2 weeks in the summer & thats was it!! There's no way I could have scheduled my holidays to fit in with whatever plans someone else had made & needed paid for.

Helen, no-one has ever wanted me during the xmas week. I could of course remain open and charge full fees for the child being absent when I am open

Having, in the past discussed this with the parents I worked with before introducing these charges, I am happy they all agreed these are MUTUAL holidays when we can all enjoy some time with our own families.

My cm charges me a fixed amount per month and includes 4 weeks holiday plus bank holidays (at full price) in the charges ie she works out the hours per week (including bank hols and hols) and divides it evenly over 12 months so I pay her a fixed amount on the first day of every month.

I think its steep but she is a Cm in big demand and can therefore charge a premium.

If she is off sick, she gives me a refund (or takes it as short notice holiday with my agreement).

On the otherhand she only charegs me for 10hrs a day when she often does 10.5 (her choice, I was clear that I needed 10.5) and she is flexible about me dropping DS off 15 minutes early on occasion if I need to. She rarely takes all her holidays, I'd be surprised if she takes more than 3 weeks this year.

All in all, I would say people are interested in your overall price (not whether you pay for bank holidays etc) and whether they are happy to pay that price. If there are plenty of CM's around and you are new, you will need to be comptetive until you build up a reputation. If there are no CM's around then you might be able to get away with more.

eleusis - Your suggestion of extending hours is quite difficult for a childminder to follow. I already have children between 7:45 and 6pm each day. I have to do my housework, planning, book-keeping, contracts, appointments with parents, coursework, website & admin in the evenings and weekends and it would be nice to spend some time with dh & my children on occasion.

I can't increase my hours because every family wants care in the DAYTIME. And Ofsted quite rightly limit how many children I can care for at any one time.

I don't have any vacancies at the moment but to take an example in the past I had a space on a monday morning. When other parents enquired for a space I had to explain I didn't have a full-time place or a place on whatever day they wanted. My place was on Mondays until 12 noon. Which meant I couldn't take on the lady who wanted til 1:30 pm as that would have meant going over my numbers.

to use the example of a plumber, when he gets an enquiry he can tell the enquirer when he is available and it is unlikely they won't find a mutually convenient day/week to do the job. Its a one-off, not ongoing and quite different from a childminding arrangement. The plumber can choose to work weekends or not as he wishes. I can't - I can only work the hours parents request.

I charge half pay for BH, Easter, and the Christmas holiday, as at time the parents are off and they dot not have to pay another CM.

I then charge half for the mindees 4 weeks holiday a year.

I do not charge for the 1 weeks holiday each I take at May and October Half terms, as then the parents would have to pay somebody else as well.

I dont charge for my illness, but full for the children.

All holidays have to be booked with me by the 19th of the month as invoices are done on the 20th of the month, anything given after this date are charged at full price.

I am also paid a month in advance.

Not a childminder but I know from my boss that they do vary incredibly re charges. She went with one that didnt charge when she was unavailable to mind - ie sick, on holiday etc as she simply couldnt afford to pay 2 sets of childminding fees. I agree with the other posters that say when you are self employed you dont get paid for holidays the same as all other self employed people. Paid holidays are a benefit to employees.

At the risk of repeating myself. Isn't charging for bank holiday/holiday etc a bit of a red herring. You can charge as much as the market will take and parents are prepared to pay and your competition is charging. If parents won't pay for bank holidays/holidays then CM's will just up their hourly rates. No?

yes but a plumber does not charge £3.20 per hour to fix your loo
if you think about it your paying lower fees throughout the year instead of higher fees for when your child attends only

yes thats sort of what I mean dmo. I'm happy with the service I get and though I think I pay a high price, thats because I'm completing against wealthier parents who will pay those prices.

Discussions of holiday etc are neither here nor there in my area.

I understand in other areas competition between childminders may result in more flexible charging but certainly not around here.

My view is that when a parent uses the services of a Childminder, they are paying for a Childcare Place. DfES certainly talk about number of Childcare Places when referring to daycare provision.

Therefore if the Childcare Place is available and the parent chooses not to use it - then I feel the parent should still pay. If the Childcare Place is not available, then I do not feel there should be a charge.
However, there may be circumstances where a Childcare Place is kept available for a parent to use in the future, and to avoid losing that Childcare Place, the parent pays a retainer fee.

Thus:
If you are open on a bank holiday - then charge.
If you go away on your family holiday - then don't charge.
If the child is sick - then charge.

How you market your childcare service however starts to affect things - as parents will shop around childcare providers and will compare prices. Some parents will work out the Total Cost, where as others will only look at the Hourly Rate. This is of course just my view - Are there any parents who are currently looking for childcare reading this? If so... do you compare Hourly Rate, or overall Cost?

To achieve a lower Hourly Rate, you may need to charge fees for periods when you are closed, in order that your service is viable.

There are pros and cons to the various methods of charging. Some parents like to pay the same every month for childcare for example... where as others prefer a pay-as-you-go type method.

Ditzyprincess as a newbie Childminder, I would suggest that you research your local market, find out what other daycare providers are charging, and then decide how your service will best fit into the local mix.

Ayla99, I'm not suggesting that you extend your hours. Just explaining how things generally work for the self employed. If my childcare wants to be an employee (and she is since I have a nanny currently), then I expect to tell her how to run her day. I choose the activities. I write the contract (subject to her approval). I say what tkids can/can't eat, I ask her to bath and dress them, I expect her to do whatever I ask within the limits of the job description which is on her contract.

If you want to set your own rules and tell parents when you work, what you do, etc. then you are providing a service.