Childminder v nursery

[MissB83]

I'm looking for some insights on childcare options.

I am moving house soon and will need to put my DS (1) into day care for 2 days a week. I have arranged to work shorter days from home on those days so he would need to be in from around 8/8:30 to 4/4:30. Looking at options there seem to be a few nice child minders locally and my DS is quite an intense personality who enjoys bonding with one person. I had assumed I would send him to nursery but it would be similar cost wise to do a childminder.

Can anyone advise on the positives/negatives of nursery v a childminder?

We started off with a childminder, but I found it very difficult to work around her holidays (she couldn't really give me more than 5 weeks notice, my work wanted more than that and I also didn't like having to take my holiday at a time I didn't particularly want to). DS also found the increase in the number of children after school difficult and he had to be woken up in the middle of a nap to do school collection every day.

So we swapped to a nursery. The major downsides to a nursery though were picking up every bug going in the first few months (then usually giving them to me!)

I felt the standard of care was good in both.

User5436477 Mon 04-Feb-19 00:19:18

"why would you trust random nursery staff more?

Because the nursery staff would never be alone with my baby and a childminder would."

Are you unaware of the abuse cases surrounding nurseries then????? It is common practice for staff to be in rooms on their own with children I've been assessing in nurseries for years and all too often seen the last minute dash back before someone answers the door.
Behind locked doors give no guarantee with one sole carer its much easier to see how the children relate to the adult and vice versa which is a much better guide to how things really are than a EYFS ratio must mean its right approach.

"SummerGems Mon 04-Feb-19 08:16:40

IMO there are pro’s and cons to both but from the outset it’s worth bearing in mind that childcare is a business, so whichever you choose you need to go into it by thinking that whoever you employ to look after your child is doing it to earn a living for themselves and not for the benefit of your child.

In terms of nurseries, there is a variety of staff, so even if there is one who is difficult/unlikeable/temperamental/whose personality just doesn’t jell with your child’s there will likely be others who will get on fine with him/her. On the downside however if you have a quiet child who struggles in large groups they might find a nursery environment too overwhelming.

Childminders on the other hand create a home from home environment which may suit a quieter child better, however on the downside a childminder is just one person, and if they are not looking after the child in a manner which you would approve of there is no way of you knowing that, especially if the child is not yet verbal. And I’m not talking about abuse here or even behaviour which is seriously neglectful, but small things which shouldn’t happen in an environment where you are paying for someone to look after your child.

Personally I’ve seen too many childminders to ever consider employing one should the need have arisen. Childminders who sit at softplay and essentially leave the kids to their own devices. Who arrange for other parents to collect their charges from preschool, who left babies in the car out of sight while they dropped off older kids. Who sat around waiting for older kids to play sport (fair enough) but left babies to cry and then rang the parent to collect when the baby was sick through crying because the cm had had enough that day, and the list goes on.

All small-ish things in the life of a parent, but significant when you’re paying for it iyswim.

And you only have to look at the back to work threads to see how often childminder is recommended as a way to earn a living, so they’re not in it for the love of children as a rule, although that helps obviously, and around here they charge upwards of £50 a day shock.

Sadly childcare (of any kind) has become a business now and the actual object of that business e.g. the children, seems to have fallen through the cracks somewhat."

What an inflammatory post .....Child-minding is not an easy money option and is not cheap to get into when did you last do proper research? Most posts now will actually have childminders coming back and telling the poster not to do it for the money as you are very lowly paid but only if you genuinely want to work with children and do hours of extra unpaid work.

You say you've seen things how many did you report? You've never used a childminder but you know so much about the way they treat their charges seriously. Disgusting post and not at all helpful.

Not sure why you need to challenge people for feeling different to you.

No ones challenging you. I couldn’t give 2 shits what you do with your baby. I was just asking a question, and also it may have been useful to the OP

Why inflammatory? Anyone running a childminding business does so to earn a living, nobody said it was easy money but the reason most do it is because they want to be home with their own children.

And why should I report? What I’ve seen was shit and enough that I wasn’t going to use a Cm, but it wasn’t abuse. Not my issue to deal with.

Others may make other choices and that’s up to them.

SummerGems - Children left alone and out of sight in cars is not allowed and should be reported even a parent doing it needs a call to the police. Childminders who use unregistered friends to collect mindees (assuming you know they are childminders and the person collecting them are not related to the child or registered assistants/co-minders) are breaking the rules. I'm not sure how you would be privy to families personal details on so many individual child-minders or are you talking about one you have noticed and decided to watch? I have shared care of 2 children (different families) we split school runs and the other minder has 2 assistants how do you know its not a similar thing?
You say you've seen loads doing it.

SummerGems Mon 04-Feb-19 20:25:53

"the reason most do it is because they want to be home with their own children"

I think this used to be the case 20 years ago but now its much harder to do and more costly I work with newly registered cm's and they are much more interested in children and alternatives to nursery with a growing number doing early years degrees and employing assistants and co minding the one thing that does tend to suffer is family life and time. Most established cms don't have young children at home anymore. Its a career choice.

I think it completely depends on the nursery/people.

I went to see a couple of childminders and was completely put off. One in particular had an overflowing bin in the kitchen and seemed to just pick and drop various kids off all day so I thought DS at 7 months was just going to be dragged about doing that all day.

The good thing about a nursery is that they will be generally able to cover for sickness etc so you won't get a call saying they can't take DC and also I always felt from a safeguarding point of view it was safer.

However we then had an awful experience with the nurseries - we luckily moved him from one to another just before it went bump taking everyone's money with its - to another 'outstanding' nursery that was awful and ending up with DS being expelled age 3!!

I moved him to a childminder who had just set up as I knew her from the previous nursery as a last resort before he started the school nursery. He absolutely thrived! Never had another issue with him and she was fantastic - took them out everyday - did loads of activities - home from home. He still asks about her all the time and he is going back to her for some of the school holidays.

He has now gone to the local school nursery which I was absolutely dreading and he's got on fabulously - the teachers are amazing.

So I would look at both.

My one piece of advice for you would be if you don't feel it is working don't drag it out - move them. I still feel guilty for taking DS to the second nursery. He cried and howled whenever we went and was constantly 'in trouble'. I thought it would be the same wherever he went so tried to stick it out and didn't want to disrupt him. However the change in him when he started with our childminder was astonishing and I really regret not moving him sooner.

No ones challenging you. I couldn’t give 2 shits what you do with your baby. I was just asking a question, and also it may have been useful to the OP

You think wittering on about how nurseries are full of abusive staff is helpful for OP about to start her baby in childcare? 🙄

This sort of thread crops up a lot, and I’m not convinced it really provides a reliable basic for making good choices.

'Nursery vs childminder' presupposes an oppositional relationship between different types of childcare, as if one is 'better' than the other. But 'different' doesn’t necessarily mean 'better/worse'. Even within one type of childcare there can be different styles. Indeed, childminders and nurseries are required to work together, so they can be complimentary rather than opposed.

As we’ve already witnessed, these threads seem to provide a platform for anyone with a grievance to pile on and attack either childminders or nurseries. It’s worth seeing these in context.

Even if every story of alleged "abusive nursery staff" or "CF childminder" were true, which I doubt, they aren’t at all helpful. The fact that someone had a bad experience of a nursery/childminder in their neck of the woods is hardly relevant to what’s on offer in your area. Ok, someone once saw a childcarer behaving badly and they think that makes them all bad. That makes about as much sense as me saying I once had a dodgy pizza so nobody should ever touch Italian food ever again.

In any case, if we believe these supposed horror stories we still need to hold onto a sense of perspective. About 94% of childminders and nurseries (it’s consistently about the same for both types of childcare provider) are rated 'good' or 'outstanding' by Ofsted. (Incidentally, this is significantly higher than the figures for schools.) It’s pretty easy to see the horror stories that dominate this sort of thread are not the least bit representative of Early Years childcare. Even from a purely statistical point of view, you’re very unlikely to encounter the sort of thing in these scare stories.

To state the obvious, a good childminder will be better than a bad nursery, and a good nursery better than a bad childminder. But it is worth considering a combination of both. Sadly, there’s no short cutting the process of research, and a message board is no substitute for doing the legwork and visiting a few different providers.

My first piece of advice is to visit a few different providers.
I definitely initially wanted DS and DD at a local nursery school not far away from my apartment building. I even visited and called a few different places in my area seeking information.
But in the end I ended up relying full time on a independent childcare provider. It took me a few weeks to interview interested applicants and hire someone. Currently both kids spend 15/16 hours a week with her.
She is amazing. She is lovely. I couldn’t have asked for a better childcare provider.

You think wittering on about how nurseries are full of abusive staff is helpful for OP about to start her baby in childcare?

Where has it been said that nurseries are “full of abusive staff”? Stop making things up.

YouBumder - one post said they likes a nursery as children are never 1 to 1 unlike a childminder - that implies abuse is not going to happen in a nursery which is rubbish as previous well publicised cases prove. Unless you can think of another reason to explain why 1 to 1 care is a bad thing?

I'm agonising over this for my one year old. There are lots of childminders on here, so bear that in mind when you view the responses.

My concern with childminders is that I had two when I was young and neither were great. One fit seven of us into a five seater car (under threes on knees) to pick up her children from a club (I think it was an emergency collection but still). The other was just so so dreadfully dull! She had two babies as well as myself and my sister and basically had no time for us at all. It was like being at nan's house all summer- basic TV, same boring toys, no age appropriate books. The only fun was provided by her 17 yo son who took us into his bedroom to play on his PlayStation (a lovely lad to be sure, but the door was shut and that's a fairly big safeguarding issue, looking back on it).

Also, I find it difficult to keep my house clean and look after one baby, so I struggle to see how someone else will manage that with up to three of them without ignoring my baby more than I'd like. At least at a nursery they've just got to focus on the babies.

That's my current thinking anyway!

Nursery for us - I don't want to have to work around another person's holidays and sick days. I already have to do that with DH and the dog walker.

I also feel that a nursery is a safer environment with more people around and CCTV if required (which I obviously hope is never, ever, the case).

DD is only 6 months but she loves to be in 'the thick of it' and takes a lot of entertainment so I think nursery is going to be perfect for her.

I agree that there are cases of abuse in nurseries - my children went to CM as o preferred the homely environment. That’s not the same as saying “nurseries are full of abusive staff “ though

ReaganSomerset - Things have changed a lot since you went to a cm its more of a career choice as much more qualifications and expense required and inspections are the same as with a nursery with the same inspectors doing both. You have to evidence what you do with the children and how you meet not only their physical needs but educational next steps. Exactly as a nursery would.
A good Setting will be able to show you the activities and how they manage to entertain everyone you can meet other families and see how happy the children are with their carers.
In our school holidays we are out every day, Den making, Bug hunting, Pond dipping, Farms, adventure pars, woods, Activity centres, Treasure hunts. On a typical school day we will go to network with others to groups, woods, childrens centres, indoors all the areas a nursery would have inside and out with messy play, home corner, music small world, the list is endless. I also do special needs support and have another 2 adults (registered) coming in as needed as well as working closely with 3 other minders so that children play and socialise with 20 others regularly. All make close friends and are more than ready for school by the time they leave me.
I have a degree and am an assessor, all my colleges have level 3 and another 2 also have early years degrees.

My advice would always be go and see what its like in different settings the days of pin money while caring for your own is over.

I'm a cm and it saddens me to see the bad wrap we get. I'm feeling completely fulfilled by my job and I absolutely love looking after my little ones. I'm taking them out every day and I'm always looking at places where I could take them, something different that will pick their interest. I do go to playgroups and I do speak to my friends while having an eye on my little ones. Playgroup is for them an opportunity to socialise and play independently..if they didn't enjoy them I wouldn't bother going.

I have a very close relationship with all my parents, I send them updates and photos so they always feel they are part of their little ones day. As for illness, I'm also very pragmatic when it comes to illness. It takes a lot for me to send a little one home (I'm never sick). Saying that, they are never sick, we barely had a cold all winter.

Fees : you'd think I charge a lot but nursery next to me charges 115 pounds. Nappies, food, all our outings (and some are expensive), do not charge for holidays..

I'm going to be honest, when I started out its because I couldn't afford 2 lot of childcare so I became a childminder. It was really hard being a mum of small children and a childminder but I have met lots of amazing children, met interesting/great people with interesting careers, and made friends for life ! I love childminding !

Reagan
"At least at a nursery they've just got to focus on the babies.*
I'm afraid nursery staff, particularly in baby rooms, have lots of cleaning & housekeeping jobs to do, and paper work of course - perhaps more so than childminders.

Reagan
"Also, I find it difficult to keep my house clean and look after one baby, so I struggle to see how someone else will manage that with up to three of them without ignoring my baby more than I'd like. At least at a nursery they've just got to focus on the babies"

A typical childminder will work 10 to 11 hours with children an just like any other setting will set up before they start and clean down after they finish then do paperwork and training other settings normally have non contact time in the day when they sit away and do diaries etc, learning journals maybe done then or in some after/before hours like a cm (depends on the nursery management) so time with children is pretty much the same. All settings have to clear up mess as they go and will have children help in tidy up times as part of independence skills. so again no different. You might find te odd washing machine running (but again nursery staff will wash towels etc in the day), some may pop to shops (part of the home experience and getting out into environment and can be done in a fun learning way, we do fruit and veg hunts, have shopping lists each etc). My upstairs is rarely done with piles of washing going up at bed time when I do, the only time on a typical day I go back upstairs.
If you go to a setting you will see how clean (o not) it is and by watching you see what is the norm as children don't suddenly change on cue.
Have you spent time in nurseries other than the quick guided tour or are you assuming all the staff sit in with the children? In my experience as an assessor its not uncommon for staff to be doing tasks elsewhere for parts of the day, pre/paperwork etc. and return to rooms if visitors arrive at the door or someone is expected. Ive been in some very good ones and some I wouldn't rate at all but from the outside it would be harder to tell, so you need to spend time sitting in any setting and observe interactions.

Did you assess for Ofsted? What would you look out for? I'll be spending time with DD during settle-in days, but obviously wouldn't expect them to just let me sit there and watch for ages as a prospective parent.

No I'm not an inspector, settings put on a much better show for them I'm an Assessor for level 2 and 3 so can sit and see exactly what a setting is like . I've seen the normal everyday workings and the OFSTED due panic that happens.
This is the problem when you do a quick tour of a nursery everything is perfect and in place the guide is not distracted by children so you can see the full show what you don't see is what happens to staffing when you leave. The best way to judge is to ignore what your being shown and watch the child adult interactions ask to stop and just watch for a few minutes don't be rushed through.
I've been to settings where the student had to do out door activities and the selected 4 children where led through the playroom an outside the faces and reaction of the others was awful as they were not allowed out. "Oh no we don't come out they might get muddy and it ruins the grass" The nursery had a beautiful garden with lovely play equipment the student said it was the first time they had taken any children out there except for parent visits. In the next 8 visits I made nobody used the garden and I was there for 2 to 4 hours a time.
I would choose a battered well worn setting over one that looks beautiful shiny and new as I would question if the children actually played with things or if it were for show, but many are sold on nice new equipment so its in a nurseries interest to keep it looking that way. People forget children get more from a cardboard box than a plastic toy so id be looking for use of items that stimulate imagination not present a fixed play idea. Computers would not be on my list of importance as children get that at home (the park, eating, in pushchairs) what they tend not to get is messy play and to use their imaginations.

My DS was with a childminder from about 7months to 2 years old but as he became a toddler the activities she provided weren't challenging enough for him and he was also becoming frustrated by the lack of age appropriate play mates (she mostly has babies) so was being naughty out of boredom which she recognised fairly quickly. I then decided to enrol DS in to a Montessori nursery which has been the making of him. He loves his nursery and has developed in to a very bright creative boy who's love of music and gardening has came from the nursery. His communication and social skills also came on leaps and bounds being around other children his age. He starts school in August and I'm glad he had the best of both.