Childminder didn't like my notice so brought my child into my work but won't give me the money back I had already paid for the month

[Lollipopsss]

So this month i handed in my 4 week notice to my childminder, I was very honest with the letter i gave her and said that i was removing my child because i wasn't happy with the care she was providing, example leaving him alone in the garden in reach of bark which he was found eating when my husband went to pick him up- My child's still under one he could've easily chocked.
Other times she has left him strapped in a push chair also alone in her easy to access garden.
So all in all i had enough of finding my child looking so vacant and left alone i found a new childminder.
Having handed my notice in this wasn't taken well and the childminder phoned my husband saying she wanted us to leave work and go get our child, which was out of the question as we both work in places that we can't just up and leave.
So about an hour and 45 minutes after dropping our child of there was a knock on the door at my work place where the childminder handed over my child like he was nothing to her, i turned to her and said i'm guessing you'll be giving back our money then if you won't be providing the service we have paid you for, which she replied "i'll have to speak to my legal team" which i then said i would be speaking to ofsted which she then said she'd get in touch with social services because of what i feed my child (he has some animal chocolate biscuits sometimes, he's not obese or anything) I did see red when she mentioned social service and did swear at her.
Since all this i have emailed her and asked for the money we've paid her to be returned but she has now made a claim that she terminated the contract due to aggressive and rude behavior which is untrue. No aggression or rudeness was shown to her prior to me handing in my notice.
Does anyone know where i stand on this matter? Surely she can't play the card of terminating a contract after i have already handed in my notice to end it?
I've paid for a service i haven't received and it's money i really could do with having back.

It's called being professional.

Can't believe what you wrote in the termination letter! Why didn't you just give notice without saying why...

Joe66 - as said we don't know what happened or was said. Ive worked with cm's who have opened doors to children sat on doorstep and parents driving away so no chance to say no to child - when parents have been told no pay so no care and in one case child had been vomiting parent posted on facebook saying up all night sick. The parents then refuse to return. Some people can be very clever. Its also not unusual for people to suddenly start complaining about awful things once they have found new childcare or no longer need childcare in attempts to get back their money. I still standby why would you want your child to stay with someone you don't feel they are safe with for 4 weeks? We only have one side of the story.

As I said, it's called being professional. To treat a child in this way is dreadful.

Joe66.....from both parties but surely the parent should be protecting their child if they really thought it was a bad uncaring place what parent would want to treat their child in such a way. Unfortunately some parents abuse the care a setting gives by forcing hands to get what they want.
When you refuse to collect your child then they are brought to you yes you can feel angry but why then start an argument in front of your child if you are brutally honest in a notice period it is understandable the recipient not allowed a chance to reply would at least want some time to digest what is written and not to have to be happy upbeat and funny (what childcare is all day long) for the nest 11 hours when just told basically your endangering my child who is not happy with you...but they are happy for the next 4 weeks to inflict you on the child (amazing that money is more important than child welfare)....so she brings child to parent and parent starts the argument in front of child and any bystanders.....what should have been said is I will be in contact later end. Yes the upset childminder should have walked away but so should the parent. Yes the parent now had a problem (but is entitled to emergency parental leave so would have to suck it up just as though child was sick) but if your brutally honest in your notice surely you expect some fall out but maybe that's a good way of trying to get your money back???? any normal parent forced into using somewhere for a month would be s nice about it as possible and just say sadly we have to let you go etc....putting a letter in after explaining more if they needed to not whilst the child stays there and not when the brutally honest notice can be used to get out of paying.

As I said, totally unprofessional, breach of contract, remedy lies in an Lba and money claim.

Sorry OP but I'm with the other posters.
Why on earth would you want your child left in a potentially dangerous environment where the CM has put your child at risk on numerous occasions?!
I would have been removing my child from her care and seeking to recover the money at that point.

Perhaps lollipopass can come back and tell us how this is progressing?

Did you take legal advice? What advice did they give?

As with others - if you thought your child was at risk - why keep there for 4w

Yes cm was unprofessional bringing to work

Yes she should pay you the money back

I though all cm gardens needed to be secure - so what’s the easy access? Can anyone walk in? Is there no locked gate

For those saying the childminder is unprofessional bringing the children to work... did they miss the part where the childminder called the parents and asked them to collect their children only to be told they wouldn’t? You can not refuse to collect your children.
If one of my parents suggested that they no longer felt their child was safe in my care, I would terminate contracts too. Hand in notice for any other reason, but to suggest they are unsafe would be immediate termination for me.
If a parent refused to collect their child of course I would go to their work. Your lucky she brought them to you as the correct procedure if a parent refuses to collect a child is to call social services!

Yes I had missed that

Op - if your child was ill or sick you would need to pick up ASAP

Then what would happen

Tho the cm is wrong to with hold money if she doesn’t want them for those 4w

Blondeshavemorefun - She is not wrong the op has accused her of gross misconduct in failing to protect her child but has not proceeded with the complaints procedure if you were accused of this at work you would either be dismissed with immediate effect (unlikely unless you were arrested) or suspended on full pay whilst an investigation took place.....as a self employed person she cant automatically get this but the accusation has been made and no action taken this implies that the relationship has broken down but the op has no evidence and cat pursue her accusations as its pure guesswork based on no accident can happen without negligence - not that an accident happened child put something in mouth as they do and daddy spotted it first (just like every child in history has ever done) and the assumption that the child is neglected all day long because they sleep in a pushchair and may fall asleep on walks but is not woken on one or 2 occasions - we don't know if its all the time or if the op has asked for child to be woken as she hasn't come back.
The cm can now say there has been unreasonable behaviour from the op and no reasonable person would continue to work having been accused the op refused collection no reasonable person would expect someone to carry on like nothing has happened and in any other job they would not have to.
A reasonable plan of action if you thought your child was at risk would be to remove child immediately making a complaint and requesting money back Ofsted would investigate complaint after the cm had been given the chance to reply if the op was not happy with the outcome of her complaint to the cm, she could then pursue her money. To put it in notice and expect someone to work particularly with a child treating child and family like nothing had been said is unreasonable.

Some good recent points there.

People do so love to misuse the word "professional" when they’re searching for a stick with which to beat someone who is simply getting on with their job.

By the OP's own account, her letter of notice raised certain specific concerns which the CM is obliged to treat as an allegation. As a consequence, the 'professional' thing to do is to cease to provide care for the child. This is what she did. She must arrange for the parents to collect the child. They refused. She should then have done the 'professional' thing, which is to advise social services that parents were refusing to collect despite their claims that she was not providing proper care. SS would then open a case of potential parental neglect and make a decision as to whether they needed to send a social worker/police to take temporary care of the child.

At the same time, the CM should have self-reported allegation to Ofsted and her LADO. We cannot prejudge where is this might lead but the OP's own account strongly suggests no fault would be found. The allegation relates to things Ofsted will have already inspected and approved (assuming the CM hasn’t deliberately modified her garden to make it unsafe since her last inspection. )

Difficult for us to make a call about the money situation. One sided threads are not going to put the other party's point of view, and may leave out certain important circumstances or details.

I can’t help feeling it might be significant that the OP hasn’t got to back to us with an update after being advised to follow the legal avenue. Although sometimes people just want the satisfaction of having their angry moment on the web.

This sort of allegation can frequently take a rather different course from the point at which the accuser takes legal advice. A solicitor will remind a client that a legal case will give the cm a fair hearing and a proper right to reply, possibly introducing facts that might not have been shared here. That’s a very different scenario to being anonymously subjected to 'trial by message board'. Very often, that’s quite enough to make the most self-confident of online accusers think twice.

Gosh you both sound as bad as each other.

^No they don’t. The OP has done nothing wrong here.

First I would definitely report her to Ofsted.

Then I would issue a letter stating she breached the terms of the contract and that you want your money repaid.

Huh?

You’re so disgusted with her care

But not quite so disgusted that you won’t keep your child with her for another month.

Op, you are clearly dissatisfied with the childminders care, and your relationship has broken down.

I don't know why you would wish to continue to use her to provide care in this situation, paid notice period or not. If you were unhappy with the care, but wished to continue to use her services, you should have sent a formal letter giving notice to her, without any allegations.

I'm perplexed as to what you expected would happen after making allegations in writing to the childminder, then expecting to still use her services.

greendale17 - do you know anything about Ofsted complaints?

stage one is to follow the settings complaints procedure they must reply in 21 days you then can go to Ofsted....but what will she go to them for? The only thing the cm has done is not call social services when the child was not collected as you can not continue to work with a child once an allegation has been made.
Seriously it sounds like the op was hoping for an immediate termination and refund which is why she put what she did in the notice letter.

Hi OP. If you required the CM to continue caring for your child you should not have made the allegations you did in your notice letter. Did you raise your concerns with CM before giving notice?

From CM point of view I imagine she went on the defensive and in stopping the care of your child was protecting herself from further allegations from you. She is entitled to do this if the relationship with the parent has broken down. Also agree with previous poster that when you refused to collect your child she could have gone straight to social services.

Re you wanting a refund I think this will be hard to get as if the contract requires 4 weeks notice then you must pay 4 weeks notice. If you did not raise your concerns with CM before the CM cannot be expected to follow procedure and resolve them fairly.

Take some legal action on this case. Report her to ofsted to fix this issue.

I also have some sympathy for the childminder here.

The OP has essentially made allegations that her child is unsafe in the care of the child minder but hasn't raised a formal complaint or given the CM time to address them (which is what ofsted would want to know).
In face of an allegation of poor care and suggestions a child was unsafe, the CM has asked the parents to collect their child (I would imagine to prevent any further allegations & because the parents clearly feel the care isn't to an acceptable standard).
The parents refused to collect their child and then (If I remember correctly) swore at the child minder because social services were mentioned.

It sounds like the OP is seeking a situation where she can terminate the contract immediately and not lose any money.

(And yet again, people on education/childcare threads are still advocating going straight to ofsted. Ofsted want to know that things have been raised properly internally before escalating, probably because there's still people who think throwing the word ofsted around gives them some sort of clout).

The four week notice is to ensure the CM, or parent, have enough time to find a new child (or CM) without losing business.
Otherwise, a CM could easily be out of work most of the year if parents just removed children when they pleased without penalties.

As such, I don't think you should be entitled to a refund.
As others pointed out, with your letter you made the CM's position impossible. If you think she's not safe, you don't let your child in her care. Therefore, you invalidated any claim for a refund as, by your actions, you demonstrated your claims were unfounded. You clearly thought she was safe enough to watch over your child for another month. And you never reported any concerns.

So, you made the relationship impossible, as well as your claims that she's unsafe.
Well done, OP.

Brrrrr, brrrrrrrrr. Brrrrr, brrrrrrrrr........ Hello, Ofsted, how can I help?

I'd like to complain about my childminder.

You,ve already raised the complaint with your cm and had no satisfactory response, right?

Er, well....... no, I haven’t.

You really should do that first. Unless of course, is it a serious allegation that she is directly harming children. Is she doing that?

Er, no.

Ok, well (sigh) let’s take some details. [Thinks, "here we go again".] What’s the problem?

She leaves my child in a pushchair all the time.

Is the pushchair safe?

I guess so. But he's left alone.

Is the CM leaving him out of her sight and hearing?

How do I know? I’m not there, obviously.

Oooookaaay. [Thinks, "we got a right one here."]

But the garden is accessible. It’s not safe. Anyone could abduct him.

Don’t worry madam. I have a note from our inspectors that the garden was checked and considered safe every time we've been there.

Oh.

Was there anything else?

Yes, there's bark chip in the garden.

That’s ok. Our inspectors were happy with that too. Children learn from natural materials, you know, different colours, textures, that sort of thing.

But my son puts it in his mouth.

Sorry, I thought you said he was in the pushchair all the time?

Well......... maybe not all the time.

Well, children do put things in their mouths. It’s an important part of their sensory processing method. It’s perfectly safe in almost all cases and, yes, I have a note here that your CM's approved first aid training is up to date, so she’d be fine dealing with any choking incident. Anything else....... Hello? Madam? Hello? Are you still there......?

I agree with what lweji so eloquently said.

Whilst your two concerns of eating bark and being left in pushchair (maybe he was in pushchair to keep him from putting things in mouth) could be perfectly valid, your notice letter was a real smack in the face and I wouldn’t want to have your child in my care after that. You can’t have been concerned for his wellbeing otherwise you would have found alternative arrangements immediately.

She called to ask you to pick up, but you wouldn’t, I’m afraid, whilst I wouldn’t have dropped DS if at your work, (I don’t have the bottle for that type of confrontation) I appreciate why your cm did that. You doubted her ability, implied she was grossly negligent, those kind of allegations could get her shut down.

If she is negligent then she shouldn’t be working, but because of how your proceeded with the letter, I can’t see you having much of a case with a Ofsted.

In her shoes wouldn't you be thinking it was a bit odd to be so upset with the quality of care but still wanting her to have your child for another month?

You owe her notice, you've also told her she's unfit to look after your child. Neither of you have handled it well but I'm not surprised she doesn't want to have him back.