Ratios for childminders

[hibbledibble]

I looked at the Ofsted website and the ratios for under 5s is listed as 3 per childminder/assistant.

Are there ever times when it is ok to be outside of these ratios?

I'm asking as I saw a childminder where these ratios were significantly out, but she said this was allowed as no set limit. Is this true?

It is 3 under 5s per childminder/assistant but you may be allowed more under 5s in the case of twins/siblings or continuity of care. However, if a childminder is massively over 3 under 5s that is not allowed.

Yes that is true although a childminder will nearly always be allowed to care for 3 under 5’s they are allowed to do a self variation and increase there ratios for a new baby for themselves, a new baby sibling to an exsisting child they already care for or under continuity of care where a child who already attends there setting needed to change their attending hours at the parents request that then clashes with other children.

The 100% maximum a childminder can care for is 6 under 5’s at one time, but this would be very rare. And they would need to prove to OFSTED that all the child’s needs are being meet.

There are lots of reasons why a childminder may legitimately have more than 3 under 5. (Mainly because it’s not under 5 but ‘early years’ which is basically children not yet in full time school).

Though if she said there’s ‘no set limit’ I’d be wondering if she’s even registered.

One way cm's are being encouraged to subsidise 30 hours free funding is the blurring or rules on ratios so if a child is doing 30 hours at school nursery they now can be counted as an over 5, children in full time reception at 4 have always been counted as over 5 then you have the exceptions like those already mentioned.
The cm has to risk assess be confident she can meet all needs and the parents must b aware of numbers. basically bringing them nearer to nursery ratios, something cm organisation PACEY have fought against since Trusses mad suggestions that have now been wormed in by government in an attempt to get mothers back to work at any cost to the children.

If you see over 6 under 5's or children not being cared for properly you can still report them but its much harder to be sure of a ratio breech as an outsider,

What age were the children she was looking after?

leesy all under 5, varied in age from 1-4 I believe. All with her all day.

I'm not thinking of reporting her, just if so wish to place my children there given the low adult:child ratio. I am confirming what is indeed the norm.

Could some of those children have been "rising fives", so four years old but in full time education (reception)?

boofay no all are with the childminder all day, I did ask after I counted the children.

She has additional after school children

How many did she have?

4 under 5s isn't unusual, but I would question if 5 or 6 could ever be managed safely. She can only have 6 under 8s.

It was her and one assistant, and there was 9 children. There is more than this on some days apparently.

So long as they only had 3 school kids under 8 they might technically be within ratio but depends if they can show they care isn't compromised by increasing their numbers.
Did it feel safe and well managed?

Nine children under five years old between two of them?!?
Bloody hell!

That doesn't sound right at all. If I've understood that correctly then she's potentially putting those children at risk.

I'm in wales so we don't have the ability to do variations or continuity of care. The max I'm allowed under five (excluding rising fives) is three.

9 under 5s is between 2 childminders is permissible under certain circumstances. The rising 3s and 4s for one thing, siblings and
continuity of care for another.
Don't forget that nursery ratios are even higher: 1:13 if they employ a graduate.

I recently renewed my insurance certificate (work with another childminder) and was shocked to see that the number of children we are insured to mind between us has gone up from 10 to 18!!

Number of Minded Children
Based on the information provided and subject to your compliance with the requirements of your registering authority you and the Joint Policyholder will be covered for minding a maximum of:
a.12 children at any one time whilst either of you is working alone;
b.18 children at any one time whilst you are working together
c.18 children at any one time whilst either of you is working alone with EITHER a registered assistant OR another registered childminder (NOTE - registered Childminders must have their own insurance)
d. 22 children at any one time whilst you are working together with EITHER a registered assistant OR another registered childminder (NOTE - registered Childminders must have their own insurance)
e. 22 children at any one time where one of you is working alone with EITHER two registered assistants OR two registered childminders OR a registered assistant and a registered childminder (NOTE-registered Childminders must have their own insurance)

Looks like the ratio changes were sneaked in through the back door after all

DH and I had 9 under 5 for our ofsted inspection. It is allowed under certain circumstances. We prefer the 6 or 7 we have each day now. During the holidays, with the older children, we often have 12 or 13 children (one is 9).

Molly I'm not sure. It left like a lot of children!

Tanith It depends what age your child is, when comparing to nursery ratios. If your child is under 2 then it is 1:3. For older children I understand the ratio is much less.

That’s right - it’s the same ratio as for childminders for under 5s.
The ratio goes up to 1:4 for 2 year olds and 1:8 for 3-5 year olds, 1:13 if there is a graduate lead practitioner.

The ratios for childminders can be flexible under certain circumstances due to the flexibility of our provision, with different ages, wrap around care etc. No idea if this is the case for nurseries: I’m assuming it wouldn’t be as necessary.

tanith but for someone with an under 2, the ratios are much poorer at a childminder under these circumstances. I know at least one of the babies was under 2, probably more.

It's because CMs normally only have 3 under 5, which is the nursery ratio for under 1s. 2 year olds in mixed age groups are easier than a whole group of 2 year olds.

Anyway ... if she's a registered CM with more than 3 under 5, the parents of the children should all be aware and must be happy with it and she will have risk assessed how she can manage.

She can't just have 6 under 5 because she feels like it. It's slightly more complicated than that.

Also she wouldn’t be able to take the ops child on as that would be new business regardless if the reasons why she’s been able to over ratios for the existing mindees.

She said she would be able to take my children (more than one!) on, which does leave me rather worried about the resulting ratios!

9 under 5s and she can take yours too? How odd! I wouldn’t.

Georgie I don't think I will, as desperate as I am. This thread has just confirmed my worries.

Definitely not allowed for new business!

The standard legal ratios for a childminder are no more than six under 8s. Of those six, three may be under 5 and of those three, one may be a baby of under 1.
That's for a new childminder, taking on new clients.

It's the more experienced childminders, and those working with other childminders and assistants, that are now allowed to play with the numbers for children they already care for, but may not under any circumstances take on more than six under 8s per childminder.
Of course, they may take on older children so long as it doesn't impact on the care provided for the younger ones.

What you describe would concern me. I would look elsewhere.