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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Getting a nanny for the first time

61 replies

1dilemma · 14/04/2007 22:21

OK wise mumsnetters we may be doing this and I would appreciate advice about the things I have to take into account.
I know we need a contract is there any thing people wished they had included that isn't standard?
I know we will need to contact our insurer about employers liability insurance
I know we need to discuss a float/kitty and what it can be spent on
I know we need to discuss holidays (I think it is usual to do half hers and half ours) She will want (I think) different weeks from us if we could cope with this would it be unreasonable to pay her for hers and suggest she takes ours as unpaid? (oh and I was working on 20 days a year is this reasonable? plus BH of course)
What is protocol about us coming home late or needing her to start a bit early (this would be very occasional and of the order of 10/15 minutes) do we have to pay more?
We would prob use a nanny tax type service any one know any good ones?
Thanks for any advice

OP posts:

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Original poster

1dilemma · 15/04/2007 00:14

Thanks nannynick I will hit all those links later. It's live out.

OP posts:

NannyL · 15/04/2007 10:08

Im just adding my 2 pence worth here.

from your original post 1 delimma!

Firstly it sounds like you are doing your best to be a lovely person to work for

This is how 'I' work...
in the very (unlikely) event that my boss is 5 / 10 mins late then i dont mind (It is very unusual), on the otehr hadn should i need to leave 5 / 10 mins early for a random reason (or even an hour or half an hour) they dont mind!
I think its called give or take if they are held up in traffic, fine, i only live 3 mins away (1.5 miles) but a couple of days there has been a bad crash on the only roundabout between my house and theres which has causes gridlock in our area and my 1.5 mile journey has taken me half an hour.... they are fine with that too!

As for holidays i expect (in my contract) 20 days plus bank hols, 10 of my choice, 10 of theirs.
Howevere i always know that i actually 'get' 6+ weeks holiday per year (because that is what my bosses get)

my bosses have never had a problem with me choosing 12 / 13 days per year either.
Any extra time you suddenly dont need your nanny you must be prepared to pay ehr for afterall she is avaliable to work for you.

as for kitty money, what i personlly do is spend my own my money and keep most receipts (if i dont loose them and then i get it all back on a friday
this is because i find it such a jassel carrying around 2 purses of money theirs and mine, or putting it togther gets too confusing for me!
That works for me but i know other nannies who refuse to spend their own money

NannyL · 15/04/2007 10:09

also i would never agree to take my holida in blocks of 5 days in my contract!

No way, Ever!

Millarkie · 15/04/2007 10:35

but NannyL I'm sure you wouldn't ask for Friday off on the Wednesday of a week repeatedly and then sulk if your employer couldn't get the time off - which was the situation I was in almost once a month this last year..despite the fact that I happily raced home from work early when nanny had family emergencies (several) or when she wanted to visit her gran in hospital and she wanted to go to the early visiting hours, or the 10 days at short notice spread out over the year when her car had problems (ended up giving her my car to use for 6 weeks when her clutch went and she didn't get around to getting it repaired (she only needed her car to get to work, she used my car during the day).
I ended up with b*gger all annual leave to spend with my family for a planned holiday (we had 1 week's camping in August) and the most of the rest of my annual leave entitlement on covering nanny's sick leave, annnual leave and 'emergency days'.
So, once bitten, twice shy in my experience..I would rather discuss with a new nanny the idea of taking holiday in blocks (which I could, if I had to, find emergency nanny cover for) than live with the continual worry that I would have no childcare the next day.

Sorry that was a bit of a rant - but wanted to explain where the 'blocks of hol' came from.

Short answer is I wish there were more nannys like you nannyL.

NannyL · 15/04/2007 10:45

well no of coourse i wouldnt...

i have in my contract at least 4 weeks notice (on both sides) to take anuual leave

if my bosses dont give me 4 weeks notice it doesnt count.

and i have to give them 4 weeks notice as well

Millarkie · 15/04/2007 10:51

We had 2 weeks notice in the contract but she didn't take any notice of that - would ask and then put me in the situation of knowing I'd either have a grumpy boss (and I had just started a new job so bad first impressions) or a sulky nanny.
I know that she was unusual, and as I have said to 1dilemma I would still choose a nanny over nursery..but I would be more wary and up front about how important it is to book leave well in advance with the next nanny. I ended up in tears twice explaining that if I looked so unreliable in my job then I wouldn't have a job soon enough but she just didn't 'get it'.

NannyL · 15/04/2007 11:45

Millarkie...

just to reassure you i dont think any of my nanny freids would even dream of acting so unprofessioanly!

I mean isnt it obviouse tht we work for you so that you can work and therefore pay us? lol

yes would a good idea to be very upfront about it a interview and in the conract but i really cant imagine many nannies would have a problem with it!

nannyj · 15/04/2007 13:10

You should also put in the contract about gross misconduct, probationary period and i have a confidentiality agreemant in my contract. My bosses also use nannypaye and they have been great.

Eleusis · 15/04/2007 15:54

I sort out the holiday requests at the beginning of the year. My nanny has no contractual right to choose any of her holiday. But, in practice we sit down, I ask her what she wants, I check my calendar to see if I can accommodate and more often then not she chooses all of them.

However, I am one of those "unusual" one who gives 20 days including bank holidays. So that leaves her with about two weeks. The rest of my holiday is spent on covering kids doctor appointments, when she is sick, etc.

And, of course, we end up giving her days here and there when she can be off and we of course pay her. So she does end up with more like 4 weeks plus bank holidays. For example, I am American, so she can pretty much bank on not working Thanksgiving and the 4th of July. I take off the kids' birthdays as well (and give her the day off).

I have never had a nanny complain that she doesn't get enough holiday. I'm sure she'd like to have more, but hey so would I!

Eleusis · 15/04/2007 15:57

Oh, I forgot to say, I think if you want to make any of her days off unpaid you should do the ones she chooses. I think not paying her for a day that you chose to be unavailable is dodgy ground. Much fairer if it is a day she chose not to be there.

Another thing I would worry about is if she uses all of her holiday before the end of summer, will she be more likely to pull a sickie when she needs a day off. Statistically live-out nannies do take more sick days. So, I might be inclined to say 10 holiday days are given every six months.

NannyL · 15/04/2007 16:54

do you mean elusis that you expect your nanny to use her holiday if she is sick

NO WAY would i agree to that either.

incidently i have been off sick once in the past 7 years which was for 2 half days, (i struggled into work on the morning of the middle day and went home feeling very poorly at 11am! but it allowed my GP boss to at least attend his morning surgary) followed by a full day in January this year.

I was paid as usual

personally i wouldnt sign a contract where i was not entitled to choose any holiday, or where my holiday days included bank holidays either.

should anyone want me to work for them then they have to give me at least 20 days (at least half my choice) + bank holidays!

Millarkie · 15/04/2007 17:19

I can't see why you think Elusis makes her nanny take sick leave as holiday she says 'the rest my (Eleusis's) holiday goes on covering...her sick leave....'

Eleusis · 15/04/2007 17:22

Settle down, NannyL. Milarke is right. I then have some holiday time to take off from work to look after the kids when the nanny is sick (and being paid)

nannyj · 15/04/2007 17:38

I've been a nanny for 12 years and never been able to choose my holidays. It doesn't really bother me to fit around the parents tbh. It can be more expensive to take a holiday though because the parents take theirs in the school holidays. Although i do need some time off in oct half term but i feel confident that my bosses value me enough to accomodate. Personally i wouldn't take a job that didn't include bank holidays as holiday entitlement but when i worked in The States you only get 2 weeks holiday anyway so if it's all spelt out in the contract when you start i don't think its a problem.

nannynick · 15/04/2007 18:01

As a nanny I don't get to choose when my holiday is. The reason for this is that I work Term-Time, so am contacted for being at work during the school term. I then get 4 weeks paid holiday in addition to the term-time days I am contracted to work. So I can't take holiday during the school term. I end up working 36 weeks per year, having 4 weeks paid holiday, leaving 12 weeks unpaid. Would be nice to have those 12 weeks paid as well, but I don't think many parents would agree to paying a nanny for 16 weeks holiday!

NannyL · 15/04/2007 20:03

I know of a few nannies who have had ALL the school holidays off paid

(and not allowed holiday during term time)

saying that one nanny used to work the last week of the summer holidays and the last day of the easter hols so that mb (teacher) could go and do some class prep at the school!

I had an opposite job.... paid 8 - 6 everyday, doing just a few hours in term time (unless children were ill), obviously full time in hols + about 8 weeks holiday per year + lots of odd days / mornings / afternoons off. Crucially in my contract i could only chose 2 weeks of my holiday though (but i think in reality i chose nearly 3 weeks)

Genidef · 15/04/2007 20:18

For us for the future, I would be really interested to know from nannynick and the others

How common are 'term time' only contracts and under these circumstances are nannies paid more than they normally would be during the time they are working?
Is it unusual to pay for all school holidays off but agree that all holidays are taken during these times?

NannyL · 15/04/2007 20:22

genidif...

you may find a job like that would really suit an older nanny who had school age children.

who may then be happy not to be paid for school holidays, and have them off.

Genidef · 15/04/2007 20:23

Thanks for your message. I agree you could be right. My only concern would be what hours she would want to do and how we would manage her school runs with Coco's schedule. But it's a really good thought.

nannynick · 15/04/2007 20:51

1a) How common are 'term time' only contracts

I think they are probably quite rare as most nannies I would have thought would want a full-time job. For me it suited at the time, as I thought I would be able to get work for the rest of the time. As it has turned out, finding work for the school holidays is quite hard.

1b) under these circumstances are nannies paid more than they normally would be during the time they are working?

I am not paid more... but if I was to do a similar job again then I would ask for more, as it is hard to find other work to fill the gaps. As NannyL says, some nannies who work term-time, are paid for all holidays.

Is it unusual to pay for all school holidays off but agree that all holidays are taken during these times?

No I wouldn't say it would be usual, certainly isn't in my case. As such I am not paid for the holidays at all... but I am paid for 4 weeks (outside of term time) as employment law requires that.
If you are paying full fee for the holidays and not expecting nanny to work, then certainly require that the nannies holiday is only taken during holiday periods.

My employer is probably quite lucky, in that I live close by, I wasn't looking to work 48 weeks per year, and as I was struggling to find work (some parents are funny about having a male nanny), I was prepared to consider their salary proposal.

nannynick · 15/04/2007 20:55

Reading that back you said... unusual - so yes it may be unusual to pay for all the holidays if you don't then get the nanny to do some of the days, though you could call it a retainer fee, a way of making sure the nanny is still available to work for you. End of the day it depends on what contract you can agree with the individual nanny.

Genidef · 15/04/2007 21:11

The way I saw it was that I would HAVE to pay for a nursery no matter what. So, it didn't bother me as such, that I was paying for all this time off. However, I did think the nanny would give us a bit of a break and not then complain that she wanted other paid leave during the year as she didn't like taking her holidays at this time. Her deal worked out to something like 10 weeks a year paid holiday, actually a bit more. In a way, I could see her point - she was available to work even though we didn't need her. And it is more expensive to take holidays then. However, I really felt like SOMEONE - and probably a few people out there - would be happy to accept this compromise. Do you think I'm wrong?

fridayschild · 15/04/2007 21:14

An "unusual" contract term I would suggest is a confidentiality clause. My first nanny set up a business after she left us which includes a web site. I think if we had not had the confidentiality clause, I would always be worried that pictures of DS1 might have appeared on the website, and I don't want to endorse the venture in anyway.

Holidays - 20 days plus bank hols. She picks 10 and we pick 10.

Then on the home late point, if we are less than 15 minutes late, the overtime from the nanny is unpaid. More than 15 minutes and we pay in blocks of half an hour - so 16 minutes late means nanny gets 30 minutes of overtime. If we ask her to come early, we pay overtime for that in the same way - sometimes it has been a hour early which is not her favourite!

nannynick · 15/04/2007 21:26

If she didn't like taking holiday only outside of school term, than why accept the job in the first place. Situations chance of course, but if she can't work to the agreed contract any more then she could always leave.

10 weeks paid holiday a year is a BIG plus point in my view for a job - even if those holiday dates are dictated. I would accept a job on that basis.

NannyL · 15/04/2007 21:29

I actually had the full non-disclosure agreement which i had signed etc in one job.

I could not disclose ANYTHING about my new bosses buisness venture and I still cant! lol.

i would never dream of revealing anything to the press either 9or anyone else)... when my boss did a 'deal' we had the press on the front door step grrrr (in fact we all went away to their oterh hosue for a while )

the sample contract on nannyjob includes a confidentially clause should you want to copy one!

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