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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Can I really work from home with a nanny who brings her own daughter, or will the house be overrun with toddlers?

53 replies

oranges · 10/04/2007 19:02

I'm interviewing for a part time nanny next week, and have never done it before. I work from home and go out for meetings and the idea is that I'd shut myself up in the study, while nanny takes care of ds1 and her own one year old daughter. Is that possible, in a two bed flat with no garden? Or will my one year old and her one year old ruin all possible concentration? And what should I pay her?

OP posts:
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oranges · 10/04/2007 22:12

I know ds would be exhausted if he were taken out twice a day like that! I can't afford to pay loads, and I only need childcare maximum of two days a week, which is why I'm now tempted by a nursery instead.
I also dont want someone in the flat if they are going to feel claustrophobic and unhappy. Its quite a large flat, and bigger than most houses in london, but I can see a lack of garden is a problem. Franny, what would you expect to be paid?

OP posts:
FrannyandZooey · 10/04/2007 22:50

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nannynick · 10/04/2007 23:59

Ok, having read all the comments so far, I feel some things need to be cleared up.

Nanny Tax and NIcs
Nannies are like any other employeee, the employer deducts Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions from the employees Gross Pay, paying the employee their NET take home pay and paying the deducted amounts to HM Revenue & Customs. Employers also pay Employers National Insurance Contributions, if paying their employee above a certain threshold.

For a 2 day per week nanny, I would expect that you can use Simplified PAYE (2007)

Working from home, with someone else in the home caring for children can work... but it can also be difficult. Noise in my view is a big difficulty (used to work for a parent who made international phone calls from their home office). It does have it's plus points though, you don't travel to work... you can spend your lunch break with your ds, etc.

However, two young children in my view will soon become two active toddlers, then two very active pre-schoolers. With good routines, children can spend a lot of time out of the home - going to local groups, playing in the local park, exploring local area, etc.

With regard to salary, my general view is that a nanny will cost about the same as two children attending a childminder. As mogs wrote, she charges £5.50 per child as a childminder, whereas a nanny will cost £7p/h gross to £10p/h gross and possibly more (though also possibly less if you can find someone prepared to accept a lower wage). As several of us on this board always write when talking about wages - ALWAYS AGREE A GROSS WAGE, NEVER NET. This applies especially for part-time employees, as you don't know what other work they may have.

If budget is a bit on the low side, ask your employer about Childcare Vouchers - as many childcare providers (including some nannies) can accept these.

With regard to working from home, check local planning rules regarding a home office and also look into how it may affect things such as Council Tax .

As you are only wanting a maximum of two days per week, and as you only have one child... I would suggest considering the nursery (and childminder if you can find one) options. While there may be some hassle in taking you child and picking them up again, you don't have the responsibilities of being an employer and you don't have someone else (or in this specific case two other people) in your home.

welliemum · 11/04/2007 00:19

Oranges, I'm watching with interest, as I'm planning to do something similar 2 days a week,

I'm bf so being far away from dd2 isn't an option, but in any case I like the idea of being able to have lunch with them and take a break from work - essential when concentrating hard.

Possibly helps that I'm stone deaf, Pink Floyd could be playing live in the kitchen and I wouldn't know.

Earplugs?

annh · 11/04/2007 00:50

Coming in late to the thread so not sure if anybody has mentioned the practicalities of how the nanny is going to get two one-year olds out of the house, to the park, playgroup etc? Do you have a double buggy or are you anticipating buying one? Do you have the room to store it?

oranges · 11/04/2007 07:49

I woke up in the middle of the night thinking of double buggies! We don't have one, and I dont think she has either. I did my sums and even the private nursery would be cheaper for two days, and ds would get to play with a lot more toys and have more activities.

OP posts:
Eleusis · 11/04/2007 07:54

Can the nanny come round to collect your daughter and go back to her house? You could buy the double buggy and she could ttake it back home with her (if she has space).

When looking at the wage treat this as a nanny share. I would probably offer her about 60-70% of the going rate. Although, as she is live out, you will have to pay her at least minimum wage.

Someone typed that you would have to pay holiday and sick pay. You do need to give her holiday, but sick pay can be SSP which isn't very much.

Eleusis · 11/04/2007 07:58

You can get a cheap double buggy on ebay for probably about £50, which is nothing reltive to your childcare costs.

However, something else to consider is wear and tear on your flat and the mess they make. If your DS goes to nursery, he will leave his mess there and mark on their walls when he runs off with a crayon.

Nightynight · 11/04/2007 08:11

In answer to the OP - yes, its perfectly possible if she is good at her job.

why not phone your local council to ask advice on the local going rate to pay?

FillyjonkIsMilitantAboutFruit · 11/04/2007 08:13

oh god you see I'd quite like an arrangement like this (trying not to say orangement-in daft mood). bascially a CM but working from my house.

any lentil weavers in cardiff take note please

harpsichordcarrier · 11/04/2007 08:15

I would say the benefits of your child being in your home, in a home environment and where you can be at hand (if you want to) and having a relationship with one carer and another child would far outweigh the benefits of having lots of toys to play with for a one year old.
I got a second hand buggy for £40 by the way

FillyjonkIsMilitantAboutFruit · 11/04/2007 08:19

ok thread hijack for francoise etc

is this something that a nanny might consider, do you reckon?

(latest installment in Filly's Childcare Crisis-get it here)

jura · 11/04/2007 08:44

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jura · 11/04/2007 08:47

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oranges · 11/04/2007 08:55

I think my tax situation is complicated enough as I am self employed, and am setting up my own business.

It sounds silly but I also dont want to have to store a double buggy and extra high chair. It would just clutter the flat up even more.

aargh! I hate London. We were meant to move but have been gazumped twice and I've given up.

I have a mothers help at the mo once a week who is fab - keeps an eye on the baby while doing household jobs I really hate like cleaning the bathroom in his nap times. I may keep her on and use a nursery for the other days. The nursery is across the road so no hassle in terms of dropping and picking up, but childminders are all further away.

Filly, what's your childcare crisis?

OP posts:
FillyjonkIsMilitantAboutFruit · 11/04/2007 08:59

i want childcare but am picky and can't afford a nanny

i thought this might keep the costs down plus give dcs a playmate

oh there must be a way round the storage issues, how about one of those pocket highchairs? or get a small table and chairs,you will end up with one eventually anyway

re the double buggy-you can get some that fold up quite small. i have a hoxton , it folds pretty small. marcosky is small folded also

nannynick · 11/04/2007 09:01

As it is only 2 days per week, as the nursery is across the road, and as you are starting a new business... I really think nursery is your best option.

Once you are settled in your new business, once you have moved home to somewhere bigger, then you can rethink childcare (as new home may not be very close to a nursery, and your business requirements may mean that you want more than 2 days childcare).

FrannyandZooey · 11/04/2007 09:02

Filly if the nanny is bringing her own child to work you will not be paying full price

yes it is certainly something a nanny would consider

you can't get a childminder to work in your home, that would make them a nanny

(not quite sure what you are on about with the c/m thing)

FillyjonkIsMilitantAboutFruit · 11/04/2007 09:10

god that could work then

in many ways i'd rather have someone with their own kid AND a bit of experience (I am hoping thats not a shooting comment)

nannynick · 11/04/2007 09:14

To my knowledge, a CM can register to childmind in a home (it has to be a residential premises) other than the one in which personally reside.
An example of this would be a nanny share where it involves 3 different families all joining together for childcare at one location.

But this is now going a bit off topic... as for Oranges a lot of the trouble is lack of space I feel.

piglit · 11/04/2007 09:27

Personally, I think it will be a struggle. I have 2 toddler dses and a part time nanny (afternoons). I have just started working from home a bit and we are fortunate enough to have a very big house and massive garden. On the rare occasions that our nanny doesn't take the dses out it's really hard for me to get much work done, even if I shut myself away in my study. For example, if I go to make myself a cup of tea I get both dses clinging to my legs squealing "Mummy play" and then getting cross/upset when I go back to my study. I'm sure part of it is because I'm still a novice at it but I do find it much easier to get things done when they are out.

And a nanny is expensive - you have to employ them and are responsible for their tax and NI, holiday pay etc.

HTH.

Eleusis · 11/04/2007 09:52

Surely if I employ live-out nanny and they want to go out, there is no law preventing her from going to her house with my kids. She is still my employee, and hence not free to offer her services to other children or set her own schedule (as a childminder would). If this is prevented in law, then I would say we have a case of nanny state (pardon the terrible pun) gone mad. And even if it is the case, who is going to know???? I don't see it really matters whether they are off to play group, swimming, or hanging out at nanny's house for a bit.

whywhywhy · 11/04/2007 09:57

Oranges I have done this during my phD but I think my work has suffered.

If I hadn't been heavily pg I would have got out of the house a lot more, but as it was I had to listen to 2 or 3 toddlers (2 not mine) careering shrieking around the house, also hearing your own child have tantrums and fights while nominally you should be totally detached from it is really hard. I would find myself at times getting annoyed with the nanny for not intervening enough, going out to sort it out myself and getting totally distracted. Also I got annoyed when I heard or found them all slumped in front of the telly!

You miss your dcs during the day and it's so easy to give into temptation and go out to chat for '5 minutes'....

Can you work in a library perhaps?

Lazycow · 11/04/2007 10:02

We live in a 2 bedroom appartment and ds works form home a lot. On days I am home with ds, I either take ds out all day or dh decamps to the local coffee shop with wireless connection when he needs to do anything other than just check email etc.

It isn't practical for dh to work as ds just howls for him or runs into the bedroom (where dh works). Becasue there is no upstairs dh is much more visible so it makes him working when ds is there much harder.

FrannyandZooey · 11/04/2007 13:20

Eleusis I believe if they want to drop in to nanny's house that is no problem (I often did it myself when working), but if the childcare is actually being supplied at the nanny's house on a regular basis then she needs to be registered as a c/m and have her premises inspected. It isn't nanny state gone mad, its for fairly obvious safety reasons.