From 30 free hours childcare to zero

[Kat195]

I have just received a letter from our nursery saying that it is likely that due to the new 30 hours' free childcare scheme and legislation put in place to implement it, all private providers in our London borough will have no choice but to withdraw from the Nursery Education Grant, as the grant has to reflect the total cost of provision of a free place. This will mean that rather than benefiting from 30 hours' free childcare from September, anyone with children at a private provider (nurseries and childminders) will lose even the previous 15 hours' free childcare grant that they are currently benefitting from. Apparently there is the hypothetical possibility of the government considering an exemption for our borough, but the new legislation is clear that the current drawing down of grants (which allows for nursery places at private providers to be effectively subsidised by the amount that the 15 hours free childcare is supposed to cost based on the rate of £4 that the government pays - the average rate of private providers, who are hardly raking it in, is in our area £8) cannot continue. Are there other places in the UK likely to be similarly affected? It seems ripe that the heavily promoted promise of 30 hours' free childcare is actually going to result in a reduction of the current free provision where we live. The only places that will fund 15 hours or possibly 30 hours of free childcare will be state nurseries, and while the 30 hours is supposed to be for working parents the patchy state provision available is for such short hours as to be unfeasible for working parents - especially as most nursery age children will be too young to be eligible for wrap around care at affiliated schools.

I think the idea was that it would help people from middle class families (and bring in votes) where both parents work, but clearly it wasn't well thought through.

Oh no I hope this isn't the case. Ive got two in nursery and my eldest turns three at the end of the year and I've been counting down the days for her free 15 hours.

Off to google news it and see what the latest is!

Look at Champagne Nurseries on Lemonade Funding.

I have had a look toostressy now really worried. Also outraged by the letter from the preschool stating it's more advantageous to send them there than a childminder or nursery. How wonderful if you don't work mon-fri, 9-5, 46 weeks of the year!

Yes it is shit. If it is any consolation (I realise it will not be) not all preschools will be offering the funding. It will damage some of them financially too.

This really needs publicising. It is massively concerning especially with the childcare shortage we already have in many areas.

I agree it's terrible across the board. How can the funding be so low?! Agree it needs better publicity and actually there could be huge knock on effects if providers stop all free hours.

I think the idea was that it would help people from middle class families
Whilst middle class families must feel that they never get any help because they earn too much money, I am not sure that a couple earning £198,000 a year really need 30 hours free childcare at the expense of people like the OP??

Just my opinion though, please don't shoot me.

I'm not in London but my daughters nursery are offering the full 30 hours. They're also not going to charge for 'extras' such as meals. They provide things like tiny talk and forest schools but will also not charge extra for these. They are a private day nursery and last week graded outstanding.

Not wanting to sound goady but why is it manageable for some but not others?

It will be a huge help to us and with a joint income of less than £40000 we're hardly middle class. Few providers here are offering 30 hours but I haven't heard of any not offering the basic 15 hours.

The increase to 30 hours is to help working parents. It's almost impossible to find work that fits into the 5x3 hours that's often offered by pre-schools so the extra provision could help parents find work.

Not wanting to sound goady but why is it manageable for some but not others?
As PP have explained the new scheme leaves childcare providers out of pocket.

If childcare providers can fill their spaces with paying customers without difficulty then why would they want to take part in this scheme?

The increase to 30 hours is to help working parents
A lot of working parents on low incomes would already be entitled to receive help with childcare fees through WTC.

ivy, I am by no means an expert but I think it depends on their overall budgets and size and circumstance. E.g. If a parent sends a child to nursery using the 30 funded hours then the nursery loses money on that place but if they are sending two younger siblings they make money from their places so overall they gain from that family? Nurseries may well be increasing the cost of younger children's places to balance the books. So the nursery loses money on the older children but makes it back somehow on the younger children. Or they are struggling to fill places so it is worth taking the hit as to not offer the hours would be bad publicity for them. A big nursery can make its money from the younger children (so parents of younger children may actually lose or from this policy if their fees go up). A childminder has less capacity to make the money up, especially if their main client group is already over 3s.

To be honest though I don't know the answer as to why some can and some can't!

To not be charging for those extra activities really is unusual though. How on earth are they making any kind of profit?

I'm a childminder and stand to lose £2.55 an hour by offering it (so very roughly £8k a year if I gave 3 eligible children funding) so no way can I afford it. It's a real shame as all my families would be happy to top-up if it still saw a reduction in their fees. Total shambles

And IMO the big discrepancy is rate paid by the council vs normal hourly rate. There can be massive variance in fees from area to area (even village to village in some cases) yet the council are offering a set fee to cover an entire borough. Unless you are desperate to fill spaces (& given the fact that childcare providers are closing at an alarming rate this is unlikely) I just can't see how they afford to offer it.

That's it isn't it, a shambles . The government (and all the main parties it seems) had no interest speaking to the actual childcare professionals (I am not one I should point out!). If they had then perhaps they could have designed an improved funding system that actually worked. Or at least not meddled in the 15 hours which did sort of work, at least a bit.

I think part of the problem is that the 'going rate' varies so much (I've heard of areas where the funded rate is actually more than the local rate - eg £4.53 instead of £4). Also if the government said that they'd fund whatever rate parents usually paid then what's to stop childcare providers artificially putting their rates up to get more 'free money' from the government.

Having said that, I'm not offering the 30/15 hours, as I only can take 2 under 5s and for me it'd mean more paperwork, bring paid partly in arrears and part in advance (in my Borough) which would be thoroughly confusing, and mean I was paid around £30 pd less than I charge currently. There's no benefit to me, so pointless!

I would ask them why they don't just carry on as they are with the 15 hours, at least for the children that are already with them, they are allowed to do that. It may be that they can't afford to do that either but it is worth asking.

I'm really sorry, OP. It's happening where I live too. It's a complete nightmare.

The increase to 30 hours is to help working parents
A lot of working parents on low incomes would already be entitled to receive help with childcare fees through WTC.

Persian Cat Lady, a lot of people on low incomes don't get full help from CTC. The threshold is quite low.

I made the decision to return to work part time because of the cost of childcare and get a massive £25 a week towards childcare. This decision has possibly cost me my career, such as it was. I couldn't actually afford to return to work full-time as the cost of childcare would have been around £350 a week. When you factor in the cost of travelling to work, I'd have been earning around £10 a week. I guess that would have paid for the formula I'd have had to buy for the baby instead of breastfeeding him.

Admittedly, the 30 hour funding wouldn't have changed my situation as it's not available for under 3 year olds, but it does at least give me some options to consider increasing my hours or finding a second job once DS turns 3.

Persian Cat Lady, a lot of people on low incomes don't get full help from CTC. The threshold is quite low
You are correct, the threshold for WTC is quite low but I don't think that the 30 hours a week free childcare should be available to families earning £198,000 a year.

You are right in that some people who aren't entitled to WTC could really benefit from this scheme, perhaps it would have been better to set the limit lower, say £80,000.

That way it could really benefit people who really need it??

That's a fair point. Perhaps then the nurseries could be better funded and more places would be available.

We're in a northern city. My dd will be starting pre school and getting 30 hours free. She's currently in a nursery and they will also be offering it. Everyone I know who is eligible locally is able to access it. It must depend on the area.

I do agree it sounds very difficult for childcare providers. Our cm won't be offering it I don't think. It's causes a lot of problems and I feel very grateful we can access it.

The difference it means for us is that preschool is opening longer hours so we can send dd2 there. Dd1 did not go because the short hours weren't compatible with work.