CM club: Silly question but can you leave mindees on their own whilst you go to the loo???

[Hollylou]

I know, I know...I told you it was silly but I'd really like some advice on this. I'm new to childminding...very new infact (start at the end of this month). I'll be looking after a 5 month old baby and her 3 year old sister full time as well as a 13 month old girl 3 days a week...plus I have my own child who is 3.5 years old. A friend asked me a week or so ago what I do when I need the loo...ie can I leave the children whilst I nip into bathroom (we don't have a downstairs loo!) or do I need to take them with me....and bizarrely enough I realised I'd never really thought about it. I've spent so much time thinking about all the other stuff such as space, equipment, feeding, activities etc but forgotten about some of the more 'everyday' things in life such as toilet stops for me!!!
So gang...what do all of you do??? Clearly you are not supposed to leave children alone or alone in the company of your own children but surely for bathroom stops you need to make some sort of allowance?!
Would welcome your thoughts...and once again sorry its such a ridiculous sounding question.

Thanks!

I replied

Hi DMO

3 year old doesn't start school until Sep 2008 although she is doing pre-school on Monday mornings now (I would be collecting her at lunch time) and her mum wants to send her to preschool Mondays-thursday mornings in Sept. The only thing I can think to do is approach another childminder I know in the area to see if she could take the 13 month old but I have a feeling she can't do the days that the mum wants. Gosh I can feel my reputation in tatters before I've even begun and what's worse girls is that I've put so much into this (as you'll all know from starting up). Still this isn't just about me is it, its about the children too and OFSTED clearly have their limits for a reason. I have to say I'm feeling absoolutely dreadful at this point in time but am glad you are all out there!

good hope you can both sort it out
good luck
i can sleep now goodnight guys talk tomorrow

Maybe you should just take on the siblings and not the 13 month old. As DMO says, once your DD starts school in September she will be classed as a 5 year old, due to being in full-time education, so your registration will probably change again and you will more than likely be able to have 3 minded children under 5.
I am in a similar situation with my friend's children, as I will be able to have them in September when my DS starts full-time school, so she is sorting out something temporary until then.

dont worry Holly talk to the other cm tomo and see if you can sort out a place for the 13mth old

btw not to alarm you but if your confident in the siblings go for it but if anything happens and they have to leave your left with no mindees, thats the only draw back with having siblings

good point nally
go with the siblings its only till sep/oct then you can get another mindee who is under 5 maybe even under 1 if 5mth old is 1 by then

every thing will be fine

The parents will hopefully be understanding. It is an unfortunate mistake, but they will be able to look at the list from the CIS and hopefully find someone else who can help them out. Don't worry about your reputation. You are being open and honest about the situation, which is a good thing.

Off to bed now. Come back and post and let us know how you get on.

xx

Oh I go to work and look what I miss

Re the toilet thing... the children I care for will with luck be occupied with something for a few mins, allowing me to nip to the loo within hearing range. Though reality is 3 year old will follow me (she's a bit clingy) and 2 year old will often come as well - so I get an audience. With a baby (have one of those arriving next term) they come with me - for their own protection.

With regard to the numbers thing... sounds as if you have now got to the bottom of things.
You have a sibling relationship, so it may be possible to apply for caring for 4 under 5's.
See page 5 of Childminding Guidance 2004 where it shows an example. Childminding Guidance 2004 - This should work, but at this point in time it is causing an error along with the entire Ofsted website, so hope it works tomorrow. If it doesn't, I can e-mail the document to KatyMac who can then pass on to you, if you want it and if KatyMac hasn't already told you about this document. Could only work though if you were to say that you were approached by the family with the two children, thus the variation request would be based on those specific children.

If you decide to ditch someone... then I feel it's the 13 month old, as you really want to fill full-time places and siblings makes it easier regarding contracts payments and the such.

I hope you managed to get some sleep Hollylou. I am sure the parents will be understanding. At least the arrangement hasn't started yet, so there won't be any disruption. You could ask Ofsted about continuity of care for the siblings if you had already taken on the 13 month old, but to be honest, I think you'd be better off (in every way except financially!), with just the siblings to mind plus your own dd.
I have an variation from ofsted and have 4 under 4 (1 x 7m, 2 x 2yrs and 1 x 3yrs, 3 of whom are siblings) and it is hard work! Ease yourself into childminding a bit more gently and you will enjoy it more I think .

And coming back to the original question(!), it would be more likely you could leave the baby with the 2 x 3 year olds while you go to the loo than with a 13m old around! I would just pop baby in travel cot or pram for 2 mins! Good luck Hollylou.

Blodwen thanks for your notes...and thanks to KatyMac too who stayed chatting to me on the phone until nearly midnight last night - KM, hope you could get out of bed this morning.
What a pickle indeed! Although as I said before I'm glad this has come up now...before the children actually set foot through my door.
I've been on to SureStart this morning and then OFSTED (OFSTED team leader is due to call me back today). They've asked me to put my case in writing so they can consider a variation...but lets be honest I'm non too hopeful as I am new to the trade! You are probably right too Blodwen that starting out with so many under 5's is perhaps being a little over ambitious. I was just so excited!
Have also been ou touch with another childminder locally - waiting to hear back from her - to see if she can help and take the 13 mo old. If I can find a solution for the parents I will feel better about this. Yes the money is important too and I'm obviously not going to be earning what I thought I was...but I can live with that. Its the letting down of parents that really, really bothers me particularly when mums are due back to work from mat leave at the end of this month. That's a stress in itself so having your childminder let you down right at the last minute is pretty unacceptable.
Anyway, thank you all again. I really, really appreciate your vigilance on this and your support.

Blodwen - can I just ask how long you had been childminding when they gave you your variation? I guess you got that because you were already looking after 2 of the siblings when the 3rd came along?

On that note -I've been in touch with some of the childminders locally and it seems they may be able to help ie take the 13 mo old for me. I'll be sorry to do this but to be able to have a solution when I actually speak to the parents, which I plan to do once OFSTED call me, is a little more reassuring. Clearly its not going to get me out of hot water that easily as I expect the parents will be extremely annoyed and unhappy - particularly as it means them having to get to know someone else at such short notice - but I don't think I have much of a choice.

Blodwen - can I just ask how long you had been childminding when they gave you your variation? I guess you got that because you were already looking after 2 of the siblings when the 3rd came along?

On that note -I've been in touch with some of the childminders locally and it seems they may be able to help ie take the 13 mo old for me. I'll be sorry to do this but to be able to have a solution when I actually speak to the parents, which I plan to do once OFSTED call me, is a little more reassuring. Clearly its not going to get me out of hot water that easily as I expect the parents will be extremely annoyed and unhappy - particularly as it means them having to get to know someone else at such short notice - but I don't think I have much of a choice.

Hollylou - I have been childminding for 16 years altogether and have the variation 3 times during that time. The first time must have been about 9 years ago I think, so I had had a lot of experience by then.
The family I am minding the 3 children for also have a fourth child (who is 4 and starts school F/T in September). She now goes to another childminder friend of mine for 2 days a week as I also have one 2 year old from another long-standing family and I can't have 5 under 5!

I don't blame you for being worried about letting the parents down, but if you are suggesting someone else who could help then I am sure it will be ok. Point out all the positive things, like it's just aswell they haven't already started with you, there (won't?) be a younger baby around demanding attention, there (won't?) be 2 x 3/4 year olds monopolising the toys etc! You have made the arrangements with the best of intentions and I think it's Ofsted who have not made things clear. I have heard of other cm's under the same impression that thir own dc don't count in their numbers when indeed they do!
I amnow in the fortunate(?) position of not having to include my ds as he will be 21 next week !

Thanks Blodwen...and happy birthday for next week to you ds!

Thank you Hollylou! Time flies! Let us know what Ofsted say, and how you get on telling the parents. Thank heaven for MN!

As you might be able to tell, it's my day off today !

Spoken to OFSTED and of course its a no-go. My numbers will change in Sept (as my little girl will be classed as in the rising 5's they say) so I'll be able to have 3 under 5 then...but not before.
I know my initial thought was to find another childminder for the 13 mo old...but I'm still wondering whether its the siblings I let go. Yes, they are bringing me a larger income during term time (on a retainer in the hols) but the 3 year old is due to go to preschool 4 days a week (mornings only) in Sept so I'd be 'down' again on income then. Was planning to either still charge full or at least a retainer of some sort for the time she's not with me but I guess I run the risk of mum refusing to pay it (I'm already more expensive than her last childminder although she's been fine about paying the rate I've asked for) and pulling both children out all together, leaving me with no-one.
Back to my reputation again - and please do tell me if I'm wrong in thinking this - but the siblings live outside my area. Mum was struggling to find a childminder in her village (her last childminder stopped minding and went to work as classroom assistant) so found me a few miles away as my house is enroute to where she works. I guess my feelings are that if I let her down (I feel awful just saying it because they are a lovely family!) at least I'm not going to have to see her everyday, which I would do of my other mum, who could if she was feeling pretty upset about things, spread the word to people about how completely dense I've been.
I have had a couple of other enquiries recently, from people living locally - both under 5's again (although this time not overlapping!) which I could potentially pursue if I don't take the siblings and take on along with the 13 mo old.
I need to phone parents...very soon. Can I ask again what you feel you'd do in my situation???

I think I would still go with the siblings to be honest. If you are dropping off at pre-school and picking up, then it is usual for you to be paid for the time the child is at pre-school. You are also 'on call' for emergencies, illness etc., and will be needed if the pre-school is ever closed on the days you are minding.

I agree with Blodwen

When talking to any of the parents, I would imply that Ofsted hadn't made things clear rather than taking the blame yourself!!

I wouldn't necessarily take on the siblings. Small babies and toddlers are hard work. How much experience do you have looking after several children at once? If you take on the siblings, will you also have to incorporate the nursery run in September? (not my favourite activity!) Money isn't everything!!

I would certainly take into consideration how you would feel if you see the mum of the 13 month old regularly. I don't think you'd trash your reputation necessarily, particularly if you found the mum another childminder, but you still have to consider how you would feel - it all depends on the relationship you already have (or don't have!)

And think positive thoughts ... everything else will be such a doddle once you've sorted all this out!

hmmm, id have to say, 13 month old to stay tbh...esp if you have other enquiries for hours that can work around, just make sure something actually comes of the enquiries before you tell anyone you descision!..good luck

bloody hell how confusing don't you all think it's time ofsted found a way to word this better. . .

HollyLou I really feel for you with what is obviously OFSTEDs mistake. The initial inspector I had round confused me greatly with the certificate thing (I have one dd aged 3 at the time of registration) and it was only after talking to my support childminder that I understood it. I think the certificates should either name the childminders own children in the numbers or all certificates should say '6 children of which only 3 under 5 of which one under 1' and give a 'including the childminder's own child(ren)' caveat.

My mindees' parents have been equally confused by it, I provide an ad-hoc flexible service for three families I know (each with 2 children under 5) and they've had trouble understanding who I can mind and when! Easier now my dd is at ft school as all other ad-hoc mindees bar one are under 5's so easier to fit in my one under 5 regular and a set of siblings on the ad-hoc basis!

Also I asked for a variation from OFSTED six months after I started, it was for 3 hours one afternoon when I would be one over my under-5 numbers with no over 5's, i.e instead of 2 mindees plus own dd I wanted 3 mindees plus own dd. From the questions I was asked over the phone you would have thought that I'd asked to take them all to the moon!!! Nevermind that own dd was at grandmas and one of the mindees most likely to be asleep all that time!

Hope you get your situation sorted out, and I agree with ThePrisoner - blame OFSTED.

If a mindee goes to pre-school/nursery/playgroup then you should charge for the time they are there - it's on the back of the NCMA contract pages. If the playgroup were to have to close suddenly (ours has due to snow/mice/not enough staff) then you'd have to be available to collect/have instead of the mindee going to the setting - and while the child is there you can't fill the place if you are responsible. The alternative, which I do for one of my ad-hocs where the mum (who is also a friend) works from home, is not charge but it's on the undertstanding that she has to be available, in fact she usually does the drop-off so all I do is collect.

this is happening all the time. i have a friend who was told her 2 children didnt come in to numbers. she kept ringing and getting it confirmed, she knew it was wrong, but they didnt. OFSTEd just get worse and worse. and then when someone else asked for a variation for 1 hour a day over lunch period she was told the only way they would grant it would be if she had an assistant. who they hell are they employing at that place.moan moan moan.