A question for nannies about pay

[spudballoo]

I'm currently looking for a temp nanny and have been approached by someone asking £12 an hour. I assume she means net? That seems a lot to me, but perhaps I'm being a Scrooge!!

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Spud

£12 perhour nett is EXTORTIONATE IMO

even £12 gross is VERY expensive.... tho temp nannies do charge a bit more

unless u live in central london that is way too much.... most nannies i knoe get about £6-£7.50 nett per hour

She must mean gross. In fact, if she is temp, she is perhaps giving a contract rate, not an expected salary rate.

What is the job? How long do you need her? Where are you? I am very nosey.

I am in East London, but even so I was quite surprised. I will have to just ask her.

I posted the job in Nanny Shares. I need a fulltime, 5 days a week, nanny to help care for my 17 mth old and newborn from early Feb. Effective sole care of the toddler, just an extra pair of hands with the newborn as and when. Toddler goes to nursery 2 days a week, and still has 2 very long naps a day (2 hours plus twice a day sometimes!). I will be BF the newborn.

So it's not a hard job, although prob quite annoying that I will be around most of the time. I'm having a section and won't be abel to lift/carry the toddler, drive etc which is why I need help.

Min 6 weeks, up to a possible 3 months. Live out!

We live in a lovely big house near Victoria Park in Hackney. Anyone need any work out there?!

We were having idontlikecrusts, who has nannied and helped us with sleep training previously, but her current woes mean it's not going to work out which is why we're looking at short notice.

Thanks for your input! x

HAve you looked into whether you need to become her employer or if she can work contract? I'm not sure what the time limits are but temp employees can be contract, permanent ones must be employees.

Are you looking for a mother's help or a qualified nanny? If I were you I think I'd be looking more for a mother's help or au pair. Especially since you say you have a big house. Does thi mean you have room enough for an au pair?

I had assumed I would need to become her employer, thanks for the tip i will look in to whether the role can be contract.

I ideally want a qualified nanny, although I'm getting lots of applications from exeperienced but not qualified nannies. As i will around for most of the time I am comfortable with that as long as the personality is right. I don't need help with cleaning etc, just childcare during the day, which is why I'm going nanny not au pair/mother's help - but I may have to be more flexible than I had thought.

Am I expecting too much do you think?

x

Try tinies child care - I think their South East London branch will cover East London - they can hop on the DLR from G?reenwich or Lewisham.

They provide temp nannies at £8 ph and £45 weekly agency fee per week. I'm sure they will find you someone good

I wouldn't worry about the qualifications, especially since you are going to be around much of the time. But, of course, experience is important. Nannies are much cheaper if they live in with you. I'm not sure what the going rate is for a live-out but Icertainly would never pay £12 an hour nett, even if she was gold plated.

Most of my techniques for getting the price down require a long term live-in position. So perhaps not much help to you. Maybe a young person just starting out nannying (say one year of experience in a nursery and has been an au pair abrad for a year would be a good place to start). Also, I think a young nanny just starting out will be more willing to take a position that is not unsupervised.

I know I've read a lot of good things about Kiwi nannies on mumsnet. Maybe you could scan through gumtree for Kiwis?

£12 seems high to me, especially if it's quite long term contract. Not sure on ruling regarding how long someone could be temp nanny for, but I doubt it is as long as 3 months... 12 weeks maybe, but I would expect HMRC would want you to be an employer - as nannies generally don't meet requirements for being self employed.

For live-out, full-time I'd expect £7 upwards Net, so say around £10 Gross.

I used to get between £8-10 per hour nett, but this wasnt for a full day for a full day it was around £7.50 nett in the surrey area hope this helps

Thanks everyone, it's really helpful to get your input. I want to make sure I'm paying the market rate to be fair to whoever I take on, but equally being a nanny virgin (if you'll excuse the phrase) makes it a bit hard to judge.

NannyNick, 12 weeks IS 3 months! I really want to be sure I'm all square with the revenue so I will contact them.

Spud x

Spud, I recommend you check out www.nannytax.co.uk. They have a great and very informative website (including a nanny tax calcuator) but when you hire someone use www.nannypaye.co.uk as they are cheaper.

And also come back on here for interview tips, the selection process, etc. There are lots of seasoned nanny employers on this site and we guide you away from mistakes we made when we ere to new to the world of nannies.

Just wanted to add my twopenceworth. I agree with uwila that qualifications are not the be all and end all. Our last nanny had every qualification under the sun but turned out to be absolutely terrible. She was great at interview but in fact she had no empathy with children (I caught her screaming at my 5 month old), totally indiscrete about our family. All in all a disaster. Our new nanny has no formal nanny qualifications but she is a star. She loves children, is very imaginative and does exciting things with them every day. She cuddles them a lot and they squeal with delight when she walks through the door.

Anyway, slightly off point but HTH.

12 sounds a bit high, but when you hire a temp you are also in effect paying for the time she is between jobs.

Spud: I've interviewed nannies recently and have details of a lady who lives in town who wnats temp work around her course so if you wnat her details pls CAT me.

Her commute was too much for us but wd be OK for you guys in Hackney.

Yes that's a fair point re paying for the time they are in between jobs.

I have been in touch with nannytax, but not yet paid their invoice so thanks for the tip re nannypaye.

I will most definitley be back for tips & hints re how to weed out the good from the bad. It seems such a minefield.

xoxo, THANK YOU! I have emailed you for her details.

5 weeks tomorrow babyspud2 rocks up to rock our world. PLEASE can we have a nice, normal nanny in place by then...pleeeease.....

x

Spud - I'm not far from you and I pay £8ph net for 1 year old twins.

As the issue of Employment Status came up, thought I'd post a link to a document from HMRC. IR148 This is aimed at the construction industry, but equally applies to any contractor.
From reading this document, it looks as though it would be very rare for a nanny to be anything other than an employee.

Thanks Nick, I agree. But she says she is a self-employed nanny and that her rate has to be £12 an hour.

I feel so dense. How can she be self-employed? Am I being led a merry dance?

HELP!

Just because people say they are self employed it doesn't mean they are. HMRC look at the job not the person when deciding whether someone is self employed or not.

I have come across quite a few nannies recently saying that they are self employed because employers don't want to mess around with tax but it doesn't meant they are.

I would take advice from nannytax or talk to HMRC employers helpline/ local tax office.

Agreed, I've come across nannies saying they are self-employed, but I don't know how they have managed it. Even if they did manage it for one job, the whole gets re-evaluated for the next job.

You are wanting 5 days per week, which could easily be 40 to 50 hours or more per week. It isn't just for a week, but is for an extended period - for several months. During that time your nanny is your employee, she/he can't be doing anything else during their time, can't have someone else come in and care for your children, and YOU get to decide what your nanny does. Can't be self-employed in my view. HMRC surely won't agree to it. As the employer, if you don't deduct tax and NI, it's you who gets in trouble, you who gets to pay the fines. So agree a Gross wage, get the new employers pack (unless you are already an employer) and do PAYE for your employee.

If your nanny really insists that she is self employed, ask her to give you a signed letter from the tax office which states that she is self-employed while working for you 5 days per week caring for your children at your home. Bet she won't be able to produce that - as I've never known HMRC to write such a letter.

You can contact the Status Officer at your local tax office to determine employment status. Explain the situation and see if they can help clarify.

Hello again, yes I've been scooting around various sites tonight and I'm convinced she can't possibly be registered as self-employed. I have emailed her asking for a letter from her local tax office confirming that she is registered as self-employed, as my understanding is that the terms of her employment with me would be that she would not qualify.

Bet I never hear from her again......

This is all very very interesting. I REALLY don't want to fall foul of the Revenue.

Cheers for all your views, it's such a help.

She's unlikely to be self employed. Most temporary workers are employees although if they bear their own expenses, could send someone else each day if they chose (delegate, hire their own staff), don't get paid for holidays, off sick, perhaps they control their hours etc then possibly she might be. A lot of consultants' contracts who are self employed include bits in there saying if the tax people later say you were an employee the consultant will pay any tax etc heaped on the person paying them.....but she might have skipped the country by then. Temp secretaries are paid higher per hour than permanent because of other things mentioned on this thread and the hassle and breaks whilst not working etc. I still think 3 months etc in usual way is an employee.

...she might pay tax as a self employed person on babysitting income but that's irrelevant to that job. My ex husband and I were both at various times employees but we also did other work in our own time that we were self employed for and paid tax separately on that so her "registration" at the tax office doesn't really answer the question one way or the other.