Advice needed

[JadeFeather]

Hi all

I work in the city and have long hours leaving home around 7 and returning around 7/8. I am planning to buy a house and start a family soon. I would like to return to work and could look at possibly one day working from home but I can't see my employer being more flexible than that. My mother has offered to help with childcare as she would like to help me and also gets quite bored at home. My mum lives in an area that has really gone downhill and schools are bad so I wouldn't be buying there. She needs to be close to this area because she takes my grandmother to her hospital appointments and visits her every other day to check she's ok. There are other areas 15-20 mins away from where my mum is which are very nice and have good schools but we couldn't afford a 3 bedroom house- could just about get a 2 bed flat. As we plan to have a small family (2 children) I don't know whether it's a good idea to settle for a smaller place. The alternative is to get a big house in a nice area with good schools that's 30 minutes away. This would mean dropping the baby at mums on a Sunday and picking up mid week and maybe one day at q childminders to get interaction with other kids. Has anyone here done this? I recently met a friend who does this (her mums lives an hour away!) but I lost her contact details so havent been able to ask how she finds it. I could do the external childcare thing but aside from cost I just think I would be more comfortable with my mum doing it and I know she can teach the child certain things eg our heritage language that are important to me. I'm just worried that I'm being naive and I would appreciate any thoughts on this arrangement.
Thanks!

£10ph net is the going rate for a live out nanny, in outer London.

It will be less for a live-in nanny and it will be less if you're outside London.

You need to look at nanny agencies offering live-in positions in the area you are planning to live in to work out what is the going rate in that area.

You can do a google search for 'nanny agencies, x area', look on gumtree for ads in your area, on childcare.co.uk and on nannyjob.co.uk. See what other people are advertising and that will give you an idea.

It also obviously depends on the hours you're looking for. 60 hours a week will be much more than 30 hours a week.

It's impossible for us to advise you when we don't know the hours that you will need or where you will live!

Thanks. I looked on childcare. Co.uk but seems like most are live out nannies as if they state their fee it's £10 and they usually put live in and live out (suggesting they're flexible). Haven't found anyone advertising lower yet! I will keep looking.
The areas I'm looking to move into are Sutton/ Walton on Thames and Ruislip.
The hours would be 40 hours over 4 days.

Don't look at nannies who are advertising, look at parents who are advertising and what they're offering, you'll get a better idea that way. Remember you'll be the employer, so you'll advertise a job with a wage and see who applies, rather than asking people what they want (although obviously discussion and negotiation will be part of it).

Have a play around here for example, with different areas and see what type of wages are being offered. You can always give these agencies a ring and ask them what sort of wage you should be offering. They'll give you that sort of advice over the phone without needing to sign-up or anything.

If I had to generalise I'd say live-in nannies are about a third cheaper than live-out nannies, although this will depend on area/hours/qualifications etc.

A 4 day week is very popular with nannies, so that's a good thing, particularly if the day off is a Monday or a Friday so they can have a long weekend.

I'm a live in nanny and get £10 an hour but I have been a nanny for 29 years. I also only work a 4 day week. A nanny with less experience would be less expensive and if you made it a 4 day week where your mum had the baby, would be even cheaper. The nanny may even be able to cover should your mum need to take care of you grandmother or go on holiday. And vice versa with nanny time off.

A live-in nanny may be on £300-£350 Net per week. It really depends on how much you offer - you advertise and see what you get.

£300 net per week... if the person's only income, then you can expect the cost to be:
£354 gross per week
So yearly: £18,408 gross + Employers NI: £1420.85 + Payroll Admin, £200
No pension (assuming this is the first time you are employing someone, as that won't start until 2017).

(Payroll calculations from ListenToTaxman.com)
So before food, accommodation, activities and outings costs
£20,028.85

For activities/outings cost, budget for £2.50 per child, per day, so with 2 children, 4 days a week, call it £20. Costs will vary over time but it is reasonable to expect a nanny to work within a set budget. Some things are low cost like a toddler group, others high cost such as indoor play/swimming, trip to the castle.

Yearly Pension Contributions (2017 onwards)
When pension starts, if your start date is before Oct 2017 then Year 1 will be 1% (so 1% of £18,408 = £184.08), Year 2 will be 2% and Year 3 onwards will be 3%.
If your start date is 1 Oct 2017 to 30 Sept 2018 then Year 1 will be 2% (so 2% of £18,408 = £368.16), Year 2 onwards will be 3%.
If your start date is 1 Oct 2018 or later then Employer contribution will be 3% (3% of £18,408 = £552.24).

Over the years though the Gross salary will change but this should give you an idea of the sort of cost involved for providing an employee pension scheme under Auto Enrolment. There is likely to be an admin charge by your payroll provider, possibly in the £50-£100 a year region. Quite a bit of paperwork is involved, you can do it yourself but I expect many parents will contract it out to their nanny payroll service. The pension itself is provided by a pension company, so probably NEST, PeoplesPension, someone like that who accepts employers with only one employee.

NannyJob - Live-In Surrey - this search will show the current job listings in Surrey for Live-In jobs. There will be a big range in salaries as some parents are able to offer a lot and will expect long working hours, whilst others can not offer as much.

There is one near me paying £600-£1000 net per week. Though there is one in Guildford offer £250 net per week. It really varies quite a bit.

I'd always thought of live in nannies as being for people who live in houses with a nursery wing. Can you put the nanny in the box room in a standard 3 bed?

You certainly don't need a 'nursery wing' for a live-in nanny.

As with all jobs the best offers will attract the best candidates, so in theory yes you can 'put the nanny in the box room', but in practise you may find that it's not a majorly appealing job if you approach it with that attitude.

It's about the overall package. So some nannies may have a small box room, but then they may also have their own bathroom or use of a second sitting room in the evening (often a room that is used as a playroom in the daytime and then for the nanny in the evening). In some jobs the nanny may have the box room, but the family are away every weekend and so the nanny has the whole house on weekends and is just in the box room of a weekday evenings. Sometimes the nanny may have the box room, but the house/flat is in very central London so worth the compromise for location. Maybe the nanny has a box room, but is also given a higher wage or gym membership and a travel card or use of the family's second home.

I've worked as a live-in nanny and had all sorts of different set-ups. I had one job where I had two small rooms either ends of the corridor. So one was a small bedroom (bed, bedside table, wardrobe) and the other was a small sitting room (small sofa, tv, bookshelf). That worked quite well. I also had a cupboard in their kitchen, a couple of hooks on the coat rack, shelves in the bathroom etc. so I wasn't keeping everything in 'my' rooms.

IME people who have live-in nannies in a standard 3-bed try and give the nanny one of the bigger rooms, particularly where they have an attic room so that the nanny can have their own floor. It sometimes means squashing the children in a bit more than you would ideally, but when you're saving thousands on childcare it's worth putting them in a bunkbed for a few years!

Thanks all. This is all really useful. If we could get someone who would take an offer of 300 net for 40 hours that would work for us. We would only really be able to offer a double room in a standard 3 bed. I understand all this would probably mean we would be looking at someone less experienced. I think I would be looking for them to do the sort of arrangement that NuffSaidSam mentioned early on where it's a 4 day working week for two days the nanny drops baby at my mums and picks up (leaving her with the 2 days mostly free to herself) and then covers the nights and then for two days it's full days. Hopefully given its 4 days that would offer some appeal. I guess the two remaining questions are, how the night cover arrangements work and are perceived in general (obviously it means less actual work in a sense but also probably not nice having sleep disturbed!). Also are live in nannys happy to have reduced hours eg 30-40 hours a week?

A live-in nanny definitely sounds like a good solution for you. I have friends who have a live-in nanny for their 2 children and they live in a standard 3-bed. As nuffsaid says, they gave her the biggest bedroom - still not that big or ensuite though. They work very long hours in the city as you do, and it works really well for them. It does cost most of my friends salary, but it means they are both able to progress their careers, which they feel is the right thing for their family long term.

Something else worth pointing out is that you could choose a nanny who speaks your family language. Of course, it will reduce your pool of candidates, but it can be done.

Yes it will also end up taking out a big chunk of my salary but I guess in terms of what we want long term it makes sense.

It would be nice if I could find someone who spoke our language but I've only found one South asian lady online who advertised herself about 3 years ago. Anyway I do want my child to also have exposure to english from a young age I just also want some exposure to our heritage language and I think time with me and some time with my mum should help with that.