Childminder - pay, holiday & sick leave questions...

[DorsetFreya80]

Hello all,

quick question that we're currently working over - what do people think of the following?

I should add that we have signed a contract - so are on the hook for the below, unless we agree to part our ways (4 weeks notice).

Background:

We have a great childminder, 4 days a week, 1 other little one & ours, OFSTED Outstanding, and currently we are exposed (paying) to the following:

• 25 days holiday a year.
• bank holidays.
• Xmas NY period.
• sick pay (length of undermined).

1. Over the past year i have realised that we have never taken our holidays at the same time - so that's 45-50 days (near enough) we have had to pay for her services when we've not used them.

1. On top of that we pay Bank Holidays - but we don't send her on Monday, so it's not really an issue.

1. Sick days currently at approx 8 for the year - we need to find a solution then, either paying double for cover, or one of us to taking a day off.

1. We are away from Pre-Xmas to post NY, yet we still cover the costs for this period as well.

So... is this the 'norm', or is this a the exception - to be tied in for thee terms?

And yes - we signed (silly), so am not going to break the contact, but rather will start looking for alternatives..

Welcome your advice on this!

Many thanks,

DF.

Nannynick has done some great calculations for you. Perhaps you could look at a nanny who brings her own child to you, as that might be less.

Costs wise, look at various funding schemes. Are you currently able to get childcare vouchers from your employer, from your partners employer, from both? If not then worth looking into though try to avoid being tied in to the system for too long, as a new system may start in 2017. Depending on your situation, that may be worth up to £1800 a year. Voucher savings Calculator

In 2017 tax-free childcare scheme is expected to start, no confirmed date as yet. With two working parents, two children in childcare, that could be worth up to £4000 per year (you pay in £8,000 per child and Government adds £2,000 per child). Full details of scheme not yet available but a brief overview is at: Gov.uk Tax Free Childcare

'Can you get a nanny for £18k in London??'

In a word, No.

A nanny share or NWOC could work out less than the childminder x2 though. It's worth looking at.

I don't understand how she can charge for BH if she doesn't even have your child on a Monday? Sounds extremely cheeky to me and I would certainly question it. I'm a CM and I don't actually charge for BH, as I'm not prepared to work them and I'm usually away in my caravan anyway!
I don't charge if I'm ill ( not had a day sickness in 16 years but I'm sure it will happen), or if I'm on holiday as my services aren't available.I do charge a sibling discount of a third.
However, as you know, she can charge what she likes....but I would definitely question the BH!

Talk to your current childminder and ask what sort of new contract is she prepared to offer. I'd be inclined to give notice and look after your exisiting child at home whilst on maternity leave and look into a new provider for both children.

We're in Essex so prices not comparable to London obviously.

We pay bank holidays, our holidays and when our child was ill. Childminder wasn't available between Christmas and New Year so we didn't pay. We also didn't pay for the childminder's holidays or when she was sick. We agreed with one minder to pay half price on our holidays for one week I think but this isn't necessarily the norm. All food, drinks, groups and trips were included but she did ask for spending money occasionally e.g., trip to the zoo.

It sounds to me like you're paying her for all the risk of being self-employed. You might as well pay a nanny and call the shots!

Think about the standard for an employee, 20 days holiday plus 8 bank holidays; not 28 days holiday plus bank holidays plus sick days. Quite frankly, if I had 8 days sick in a year, my employer would be monitoring my attendance until it improved.

I think it would be interesting to run this contract past hmrc and see what their views are, if there is any risk that THEY would consider her your employee based on these terms. I know there are lots of ways to judge self employment but the way this contract is worded it seems she wants the best of both worlds.

I think hmrc would be happy that the fact that the cm is setting the terms and stating when she's available and how much she'll charge as confirmation that she's not an employee.

As a child minder, I don't charge holidays, sick days, and if the parents give me sufficient notice I don't charge if they are taking a half day off, and I am flexible if they want extra days, late evenings, etc. I don't charge nearly as much as your CM but we live in East London. I am also rated outstanding. I would never dream of parents paying my sick days, or Christmas and bank holidays. I think that your CM's contract needs renegotiating.

Hi fellow cms,

Expecting my grandchild to join the setting for 3 full days next year. I am Ofsted registered so they can claim child care discounts. Do I have to do obs/planning on my own grandchild like I do on the other mindees? Would Ofsted expect that or not?

Oh blimey so sorry! That was supposed to be a new post.

Sorry op.

Surely she is self-employed so why are you paying her holiday pay?

as cm is se she can dictate her 'demands' and the parent agree to them, which you have so no hmrc wont care

tho what she wants seems to be insane

sure you could 1) find a cheaper cm who didnt charge holidays of hers and bank hols 2) a nwoc to work for you

A live out nanny in central London will be closer to £30k+ all in unless v inexperienced. The hourly rate is about £9-10 or more [and you are in Zone 1 which makes their travel in much more expensive] and it's usually a 50 hour week for most at 8-6. It's the hours rather than the hourly rate as such. Then NI on top, payroll and insurance costs and now a pension. Plus you can no longer claim back sick pay.

I am in Zone 2 London and have recently moved to an Ofsted childminder arrangement. £50 a day 8-6, and £25 a day for school wraparounds 3-6. Food is included but not nappies/wipes etc. and day trips/activities during holidays are extra. We don't pay for BH or her holidays at all. If she is available to work and we are away or take the children out of her care on a half day or whatever, we will pay her.
She will take 5 weeks unpaid holiday per annum but that's her choice. Perhaps I am getting an extremely good deal but I don't think so as I checked out the local rates. She is self employed and when she is not working, I will have to find and pay for an alternative unless we only take our own holidays when it suits her.

If you are on maternity leave now, I would use the time to renegotiate your contract, while you have the leverage of being able to look after your oldest child and look for an alternative. I certainly wouldn't wait until your last month or two when you would potentially be trying to settle in two children somewhere else.