Really difficult mindee

[ButtonMoon88]

I've also posted this in parenting, really desperately need advice!!
I'm at my wits end.

Biting, smacking, pulling hair (from the roots), pushing and today we had throwing toys in a babies face. Up to now DH and I have been doing the whole getting into child's level and very calmly but firmly saying No that's not ok, and moving child to side and then asking them to apolgise. But this has been going on for months. SHe sleeps and eats well, it's almost as if she is looking for ways to hurt other children.
What more can I do? Other children don't want to play with her and she will seem to 'attack' for no reason. She is 21months.

Any advice welcome

I'm not a CM, but my now 5yo DD has phases like this. We watched her like a hawk to try and pre-empt any incidents. But if she did break away, we'd just say 'no' and remove her from the situation, room if possible. She soon learned that she couldn't behave like that. Obviously when she got older she could be reasoned with "hitting hurts other children, that makes us sad", but a quickly enforced time out worked wonders before 2yo.

ReallyTired, my 8mo DS has learned not to bite me during BF, because every time he did it he got put down. A time out from milk certainly meant he learned not to do it, and I don't think he's particularly developmentally advanced...

OFSted don't approve of the naughty step with young children. Even Jo frost (from super nanny) does not advocate it for under twos. If you put a defiant toddler in the naughty step they will simply get off it. You will end up playing a game of catch where you keep putting the toddler back. With older children the naughty step can work well, but many toddlers do not have the capacity to reflect on their behaviour.

Gina ford has much better ideas for disciplining a small child.

www.contentedbaby.com/TheNaughtyStep.html

Descriptive praise works well. It also makes it clear what your expectations are. Attention is given for good behaviour.

Hi I don't think anyone has mentioned the naughty step, I certainly haven't.

I don't think anyone mentioned using the naughty step, I certainly don't.

As for Gina Ford she usually makes my blood boil but I will look at the link, thank you

Removing a toddler from a situation to demonstrate unacceptable behaviour is a million miles from the naughty step. I never used it - frankly I couldn't be bothered constantly returning her to it (as you say).

But quickly picking her up and putting her on the other side of the room with a firm 'no'? Even if you have to do it a million times, it sinks in. This is also how she learned not to touch the wood burner, radiators and plug sockets.

That works very well alongside praising the good in my (albeit limited) experience. It teaches them both ends of the spectrum: this is behaviour I would like to see, this is behaviour that will not be tolerated.

"But quickly picking her up and putting her on the other side of the room with a firm 'no'? Even if you have to do it a million times, it sinks in. This is also how she learned not to touch the wood burner, radiators and plug sockets. "

Surely putting a child on the other side of the room is in essence similar to using a naughty step, even if you don't call it that. Having a naughty wall or a naughty corner is not much better than having a naughty step. OFSTED objects to the use of time out with under threes because of the mild element of rejection.

Children learn not to touch dangerous objects as they mature, develop langage and can be reasoned with. I feel its the passage of time that makes children learn acceptable behaviour rather than arbitary sanctions. This little mindee is in the throws of the terrible twos and this phase will pass.

I do not agree with Gina Ford's ideas on looking after babies, but I feel that her ideas about looking after toddlers are far more realistic. Clearly she has had a lot experience with toddlers through being a nanny, but has never had her own baby. Ironically Dr Sears who is the other end of the parenting spectrum also advocates descriptive praise.

www.askdrsears.com/topics/parenting/discipline-behavior/shape-childrens-behavior

Really tired- you have obviously taken great offence to my original post because everything that has been said on this thread you have tried to argue. Please do not keep mentioning Ofsted, I realise you are doing this to infer my practice is below standard, but it isn't, you are wrong. I have recently been grade outstanding for the second consecutive time. I have no doubt my setting is a wonderful place for children. At no point have I or anyone else said that we put children on a naughty step. My OP in hindsight was a very frustrated and flustered one after a very hard day, so perhaps I did not articulate myself very well. When I move a child to the side, they are literally to the side of me so they can calm down. They are not shouted at, they are not sent away in punishment, they are simply moved away from the situation. There is nothing in this that Ofsted or any decent person would argue is wrong.
I asked for suggestions on how to manage this situation and thankfully I received many good ideas. Our behaviour management strategies are clearly different but please do not continue to infer I don't know anything about EYFs or how to care for children.

Surely exposing a child to being bit, hit and kicked on a regular basis is damaging to that child. If this child cannot be stopped from acting in this way (and it appears that she can't be) then she must be looked after on a one to one basis away from other children until this behaviour stops. Why should a poor frightened child be subjected to this physical abuse at a childminders when they should be safe.

I didn't see your last post. Sorry. But if you've tried everything then time has come to part company with this child. I don't see the point of people quoting Ofsted. If methods suggested aren't working then the parents must make other arrangements because the well being of the other children must be taken into consideration. Hope things work out.

I think if I can't get mom and dad on board that may be my only option but I would hate to give notice I've never done that before...

it's not developmentally normal to do what this child is doing. The op obviously cares as she has tried and is trying as many solutions as she can find. What solutions do you have to offer Really , rather than attacking the op ?

It's just the age really. If it's really stressing you out though and nothing seems to be working, just give notice to the parents.

My child was like that and eventually our childminder gave us a notice. We are now seeking a referral for behavioural issues. So perhaps not a childs fault, but if you are not coping is it best to give notice I think.

We have had an up and down week but no where near as hard as last week. The key was getting mom and dad on board, we had a meeting and they contradicted themselves and had a full on spat...thankfully we have agreed on next steps and ways to manage the situations when they arise. I desperately hope I do not have to give notice!

ReallyTired Are you Mum Childminder or Nanny?
Interested thats all.

Glad you had a better week Button

Glad parents are now on same wavelength as you. That will help that all carers are consistent

Glad you had a better week