My tenants want to employ a nanny

[cjm10979]

I am a landlord of a ground floor two bed room flat (and a mummy) and my tenants have a 10 month old. The mum is going back to work in 2 months and they have decided to employ a nanny for 3 days a week. The nanny will also be accompanied by her 18 month old child.
The problem is that I don't think the flat would pass any Ofsted inspection (I know this is not necessary for nannies and only childminders). The main issue is that all the 6 internal doors have glass in them (which has been painted white). I think it would be possible for a toddler charging around to smash any of them and stab themselves with glass splinters.
If this risk has been identified before hand would the nanny's indemnity insurance cover this? Surely the nanny's employers would need to rectify this to comply with health & safety at work legislation?
Other health & safety aspects of the flat are good as there are no stairs, 2 external doors and all windows except of the bathroom & toilet have adult accessible windows to the outside.
Are there any nannies out there where their employers are renting? How do the insurance polices work in this situation?

Why did you ask?

You've obviously decided that tenants need to sort it out at their own cost or move.

Why do you need a lawyer to answer an insurance question surely you or they just ring their insurance company [confused.

I need to disengage from this it a big waste of time!

Have you even rung your insurance company? Might be an idea before you start making a fool of yourself with your forbidding and demanding they engage lawyers

Plenty of people rent and have nannies. This is not revolutionary. The insurance companies can deal with this. In a similar circumstance I know of it involved a phone call to the insurance company, adding a note regarding the nanny including her full name and the stipulation that theft without forced entry would no longer be covered for the contents part of the policy (so not even an issue for an unfurnished property).

Or do you think Angelina Jolie and Sandra Bullock when they recently rented in the UK were forbidden from having a nanny in their rental property?

There's actually a lot of incorrect and ill informed posts on this thread. Landlords have a huge amount of statutory (not contractual) obligations when renting out a property. Electricity wiring, sockets and appliances, gas safety, energy performance, housing, health and safety rating, landlords and tenants legislation.

It certainly isn't a case as "taken as seen" when it comes to safety. It is too detailed to provide comprehensive information here but you and anyone else renting a property need to seek advice from a good managing agent (member of professional body) or solicitor. Non safety glass is definitely a hazard and you would have no defence if there was an accident, you would be negligent as you know about the hazard.

Unfortunately I have dealt with a case of a young child falling through none safety glass panel on a door at the bottom of a flight of stairs. I won't say any more other than get off your high horse about your tenants and meet your statutory safety obligations as a landlord. You sound very ignorant of your obligations and there are criminal as well as financial implications. As well as moral.

Incidentally childcare professionals living en famille are usually treated as part of the household for insurance purposes but you would need to check this.

This sounds like a non-starter unless you are prepared to add the nanny onto the tenancy agreement as it is YOUR insurance that seems to be the sticking point. Have you talked to your insurer? It won't be the first time that they have had an enquiry about having a nanny working in a rented property. They may well have a particular thing they add to the policy wording or they just make a note of it such that in the event of a claim the policy is not invalid.

I have nannied in rented accommodation so I find it a bit odd that your insurer would not cover it in some form. First step therefore I feel is that you find out for certain from your insurer by calling/emailing them.

Your tenant has been there for 5 years, do you really want to lose them?

Where I live the flats are all HMOs so that is what I have experience of. But, when we replaced some of our own windows we were told we had to have safety glass due to the height of the windows (long and low) so there are even rules about what you do in your own home, renting aside.

OP I am happy to be on a "high horse" regarding the safety of children. Glad you're only bothered about the insurance. Let's hope you never have to have a preventable accident on your conscience.

I have lived in 2 houses with glass doors and broken them both playing with the kids.

Also the tenants would not be liable for a landlord's insurance being invalid if they have notified the landlord. It is the landlord's job to ensure they meet all their statutory obligations and responsibilities and any other contractual obligations and responsibilities set out by the mortgage company, insurance underwriter etc. That includes the landlord notifying the insurance company of any changes that may invalidate the insurance.

The obligations towards the nanny as an employee is the responsibility of the employer. There may be dual liabilities with the owner of property in some instances regarding health and safety.

YesIDid is quite right that some obligations are covered by criminal laws.

You are aware, of course, that adults can accidentally break glass as well, and are just as likely to bleed to death if they slice open an artery on the unsafe white painted glass panels in your doors, right?

The fact that you instantly are looking for an "angle" to push all the responsibility onto the tenant, instead of being a decent landlord, quite frankly speaks volumes about you... none of it good.

i find it weird that your insurance wont cover a nanny working in the home

ive had several friends work in rented homes and never had a problem

So your insurance wouldn't cover anybody doing any household tasks for the tenants? Such as a cleaner, housekeeper, decorator, etc etc? Because at the end of the day, the nanny will be there as a service provider, and your insurance can't be invalid due to service providers being in the home surely?!

I've worked in rented homes, my employers LLs haven't even known that they've had a nanny half the time!

You need to give your tenant notice, and stipulate when you re advertise no children and tenants never to have guests.

There is a serious lack of rented property in this country many families with young children are forced into poorly maintained accomodation. They are forced to move frequently, changing schools, leaving friends.
Sorry but you don't sound like you are trying to help your tenant. Have you actually rang the insurance company and asked about the nanny? Because it's not the same as running a business. A nanny is staff and lives as one of the family.

If having a nanny changed the use of a building to being a place of employment then there would be an awful lot of homeowners in breach of their own home insurance...

But you go ahead and demand lawyers and forbid them to hire a nanny. Hope that works out for you.

I've worked for three families who were ex pats in this country and who were renting. And my current family are renting while they are fixing up their owned house.

the insurance I have makes no comment on rented or owned accommodation.

Your first post:

I am a landlord of a ground floor two bed room flat (and a mummy) and my tenants have a 10 month old..... all the 6 internal doors have glass in them (which has been painted white). I think it would be possible for a toddler charging around to smash any of them and stab themselves with glass splinters.

And in a later update:

the tenants have lived there for 5 years and still want to live there and have not complained that it's unsafe. They have just renewed their tenancy agreement, if they thought it was unsafe/unsuitable for a child they could have moved out.

As you point out, you're a bit more experienced with kids than your new-parent tenants are. You've identified a risk to a child. Putting all concepts of liabiliy, legal responsibility, negligence, insurance to one side, don't you think that it would be best for their child (and the nanny's toddler) if you warned them about your concerns regarding the glass? It can be easily fixed by putting safety film on to the glass.

Once the danger has been addressed, then you can sort out the insurance issues by, as many have suggested, calling the various insurers involved and asking them. For what it's worth, your own perception of whether the flat is being used for "residential purposes" or "work purposes" due to the employment of the nanny is neither here nor there - what matters is the precise insurance policy wording because the insurance coverage is a matter of contract between insured and insurer.

I lived in a house with the door type you describe - one day when we had the back door open a gust of wind blew through and slammed it into a chair, and the whole glass panel smashed. It was not safety glass so came off in huge sharp chunks. I tried to get a glazier to fix it and was informed this type of door in rented houses is illegal now for safety reasons.

I have since done a First Aid course where the paramedic told us about a teenager who'd slammed one of those doors, it smashed, cut a major artery and he bled to death in 4 minutes.

I would strongly recommend you change these doors for everyone's safety and your peace of mind.