Pregnant nanny refusing to work

[Octonought]

Advice please. My nanny is pregnant and refusing to come to work as my twins are unwell, in case it's flu as she hasn't had her flu jab, and claims she hasn't even been offered one (she's about 17w). I'm a bit surprised she hasn't been offered one as I know this is a target group for flu jabs .
I'm livid about this. I don't qualify for a flu jab but choose to have one (which I pay for) as I work in a high risk profession for catching illness. She has had what I consider a lot of time off sick since she started, has been late without apologising (because it wasn't her fault!). This is despite the fact that I had called a friend at 8am to cover for my nanny until she arrived as not going to work is not an option for me - and she had been late or absent on 3 previous occasions in the previous weeks which was impacting on my job.
There have been other issues too which I won't go into here.
DH has had a massive row with her on the phone this evening after she texted me (again, despite having been told before that she needs to call me if she is going to be absent) to inform me that's she's not coming in the rest of the week as my girls have temperatures.
I'm at the end of my tether, this is our second nanny, and both our experiences have been disappointing. I have a nanny as I have a 3 preschool age children, not because I can afford the luxury. Right now, nursery seems like a much more attractive option....

Dreadful. We had 3 under 4 and both worked full time. Our nanny got pregnant when the youngest was 2 or 3 and she was brilliant at working until the last minute, taking the youngest to her maternity check ups and all the rest. Yours is utterly unreliable and unreasonable.
I don't think nurseries are better. I think you need a more reliable nanny.
Will be hard legally to get rid of her as she's pregnancy however.
Do you pay her when off sick? If you don't that tends to make people turn up as the first 3 days is totally unpaid and after that they only get SSP.

Octonoughts - she sounds abit off a rubbish nanny. Definitely take legal advice, give warnings on the thigns that are wrong and give notice.

There are good nannies out there - our lovely nanny has been with us over 8 years now and we all love her dearly. You need someone who is proactive and works with you and your DH in bringing up your kids - and that person is out there somewhere.

I've spoken to an employment lawyer who says we absolutely can't dismiss her as she's pregnant, and she'd probably win a tribunal case for unfair dismissal against us which has unlimited damages. She said that you have to have incredibly strong case if an employee is pregnant and our grounds are too flimsy.

Sick pay is discretionary in the contract so we won't be paying this week. We haven't chosen to pay it in the past as there has been too much abscence.

So we're stuck and will have to make the best of things for another few months

Are you paying her full pay when she's off? If so tell her you're only paying SSP from now on. She's taking the piss saying she won't work because your DC's have temperatures. Tbh if she was a crap nanny before getting pregnant, I expect she'll only get worse.

I worked until 36wks and never took a day sick despite nerve related issues and SPD. I booked my antenatal appointments for first thing in the morning or last thing to minimise any inconvenience to my employers ( despite mb being a sahm ) and luckily I had a fab MW who accommodated me.

I would take legal advice about how to handle things but I'd be very blunt about what I expected from her. And yes, she's an adult. She can sort her own flu jab out!

Cross posts with most of that! Even if you can't dismiss her you can still sit her down and tell her what you expect. Keep a record of everything and bring it up every time.

You can give her a warning for texting when she's been told to ring though.

do that, go over your expectations again and give her a warning again the next time she fails in her responsibilities. You can't dismiss her for being pregnant but you can dismiss her for being crap. How long has she worked for you?

Tell her to walk into boots and get the flu jab. That's what I did, as I am pregnant, and had it done there and then for free. She is taking liberties.

You need to lay down your expectations regarding being notified about her not being able to work. Ie text totally unacceptable and you expect a phone call.
I assume you can discipline her for not following reasonable instructions and policies. Keep detailed records from now on of any discussions you have especially any relating to her performance.
You absolutely can't dismiss for pregnancy but being pregnant can't give her free reign to disregard your instructions and policies.
If she's off and not actually sick then she's not entitled to pay.
Also I would seriously look at a different type of child care like a nursery or childminder.

This is a pisstaker who thinks there will be no consequences if she pisses you off/causes chaos. This is much more what this is all about than her pregnancy, as such. Def take legal advice and then move her on.

And no, you are not obliged to tell her to get a flu jab. She is an adult, as you say, and you might be a GP but you are not HER GP. I don't think I would especially like it if my boss started giving me medical advice, however well intentioned. Further, I would consider that my conversations with a midwife are my own business. You could say something like: did your midwife raise any concerns that we should be aware of, but that's all I would personally do.

i've just seen your update. Speak to another lawyer.

If they go on SSP are they aware that it may affect how much they get in SMP? SMP is calculated on a specific time period of work, so if they are not on full wages during that time, their initial SMP will not be 90% of their normal salary, but instead 90% of their salary during those qualifying weeks.
www.maternityaction.org.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/sicknessduringpregnancymaternityleave.pdf

Follow disciplinary procedures for failure to turn up to work. Document everything, keep texts. Log time/date of all contact.

Oh god. It's her. Sorry didn't click Your name op

Ssp for any time off and unfortunally you will Prob need to keep her till she goes on ml - unless you can think of a way of dismissing her without mentioning pregancy

The lack of ofsted may be a way round it. Shea in breech of contract?? Think you need to speak to an employment Lawyer

Look at what Cindy says. As you say you are not paying her when off sick (it will just be SSP after day 3) so make sure she is aware of that (although she may not need the money if she has a husband who can keep her I suppose).

We had two nannies go on maternity leave (and has HMRC inspections for each set of maternity pays too - not that they found a penny wrong but it was a massive hassle and huge work load when you're working full time and have small children) never mind the difficulty of the bonding - child bonded to nanny - our first nanny stayed 10 years - and suddenly off having a baby. it is a very different impact having a baby when you're nanny compared to if you work in a shop when having someone else on the till does not matter at all.

Sorry but in my opinion she's pushing her luck. I work in a hospital, full of sick people, I worked in said hospital up until 38 weeks. I had the flu jab by choice, no way would my employer have allowed me time off in case I caught the flu from someone because I hadn't had the jab when I could have. The jab only protects you against certain strains anyway, you can still catch the flu even if you've had the jab.

She wouldn't be entitled to ssp for the current time off though surely? She is not ill herself, just refusing to work as the children are (possibly) ill.

Could you not legally make her redundant and just send the children to a childminder or nursery instead? That way you wouldn't be employing someone else at all but just choosing to use a different form of childcare so that the position of nanny became redundant.

She's not entitled to sick pay. She isn't sick. She is choosing not to work because she feels it puts her and her baby at risk. I personally thought a high temp was only a significant risk in the first trimester anyway but leaving that aside I agree risk assessment is the way to go - that involves REASONABLE adjustments. It's not reasonable for a NANNY to wish to avoid contact with any child who might be off colour for 9 months which is what she's basically asking for. Give her some antibacterial hand gel and be clear you expect her at work unless the kids have a diagnosed and significant illness - anything involving a rash or antibiotics for example. And yes - look in to making her redundant and use a nursery instead.

Just curious, does the OP have to pay her whilst she's on maternity leave, like an employer in another field would?

Ask her if she'd like to take it as holiday or unpaid, as she isn't ill - and start looking for a replacement ASAP.

Sean - the employer can recover 104% of the cost of maternity leave from the government. The extra 4% is towards the cost of the employers national insurance. The nanny still accrues holiday leave whilst on maternity leave which the employer has to cover the cost of.

Thanks!

She is taking this week unpaid - IMO it's unauthorised leave so I'm not paying.

Jellybeans, we'd love to use another form of childcare but it's just not practical. My son is settled at the village preschool attached to the school he will be attending next year. He would be so upset if we took him out and sent him to nursery instead.

There is no local childminder with space for all 3 so that's not an option either.

You need to start keeping a log of problems and conversations you have about those problems. Give her formal warnings. You can't sack someone because you asked them to phone and they text (no matter how irritating that might be). You need to formalise it.

Re. the texting. I wouldn't let it worry you too much, just text back 'You need to call me asap' or similar. It's not worth raging over.

Re. the flu jab. No it isn't your job to tell her to get a flu jab, but if she's a bit dim/disorganised then it seems like it would be in your interests to advise her about it. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face on this one.

Re. not calling her references. Really, really stupid. You can't blame 'nannies' for your poor recruitment technique. There are loads of great nannies, but you need to employ someone who is already Ofsted registered and actually call their references.

Re. DH having a massive row with her. Not wise. You're employers you need to behave as such, shouting at her on the phone is not the way to go about it. If you want to get rid of her without a law suit, ringing her up, about a pregnancy related issue, and shouting at her is not going to help you. Calm down and do things properly.

Outraged, thanks for your response, but I'd like to clarify a few things.

I didn't make a conscious decision not to tell her about the flu jab. I was just amazed when I found out she hadn't had it.

As per recruitment, I've already said we make a mistake not calling her references. However, we did go through an agent who told us we didnt have to ring them because she had. We're new to this and were naive.

I've never condoned my husband losing his temper at her, and do know that's not how to do things. But this was on a background of me being seriously concerned about losing my job, I've been really stressed about this, and going to bed every night wondering if I have childcare in the morning (DH leaves at the crack of dawn so when she doesn't turn up, it's my problem) and he has borne the brunt of that.