Legal difference between babysitter and nanny?

[Toomanyhouseguests]

My children are older, yr6 and yr3 in school. I will need someone to pick them up after school and be with them for about 3 hours each afternoon. A friend suggested looking for a student to baby sit them after school. This sounds ideal, because they are older and fairly self-reliant (They come home, get changed, make their own snack, do their homework and then watch TV or mess around in their rooms till dinner normally.) This way they would be in their own home and would have the smaller adjustment to make with me going back to work.

On the other hand, I have heard that nannys require a lot of paperwork and legal responsibility for the parents as they are the employer. I wonder why a baby sitter wouldn't have the same rights? At what point does a "baby sitter" became a "nanny" and require pay slips, sicks days, NI, etc?

I like to follow the rules in life. I am not an HR specialist, so if 15, regular hours a week requires this sort of input from me, I think I'd be better off finding a childminder, even though the kids couldn't stay in the comfort of their own home.

Any advice will be gratefully received!

Hi, OP

Generally speaking, if the person looking after your children is working for you exclusively, and there is a reciprocal obligation for you to provide her with work and for her to turn up, she will be your employee. This will regardless of her qualification / title etc, pay and number of hours.

However, if she carries out assignments for multiple people, or the arrangement is ad hoc, she is likely to be self-employed.

Here are the figures:

So over £153 you pay tax between £111 and £153 you register.

If you pay them less than £111

If you pay your employee less than £111 a week and they don't have another job elsewhere - or other taxable income such as a pension - you don't have to do anything.

If they have another job or other taxable income

If your employee has another job - or other taxable income, such as a pension - you'll need to operate PAYE no matter what they earn. This is because their tax-free allowances will normally be set against the pay from their main job or pension, which means tax may be due on their earnings from you.

Remember to agree a gross rate of pay not net or if they have student loans or other income you will end up paying more.

As other have said payroll companies charge an annual fee to sort this for you.
You will need to let your home insurance company know and check you are covered for employees in your home.

Agree with Aridane what the childcare calls them-self nanny or babysitter is irrelevant. As is any qualifications.
If it is regular hours each week you are an employer. You will also be liable for statutory holiday pay 5.6 weeks per year.

Don't forget that benefits of child carer being in your home are many.
They can cook children a hot meal. If children are ill, snow days, inset days they will still care for them. Although of course they may or may not be available to extend their hours before school finishes.
They can take parcels in. Feed the cat.
For two children you may find the cost comparable with a childminder.

Thanks everyone, these are some good leads that I will follow up.

Babysitting is a casual arrangement. A babysitter can work for any number of families and is paid for what they do but is under no obligation to do it again. They should nevertheless register as self employed and pay tax if they earn enough.

If the arrangement is or becomes a regular one and the parent/family commissions or contracts the nanny/babysitter to perform do specific duties at specific times, they are an employer and it is their duty to register and pay the tax, and they who will be held accountable and possibly fined if that is not done. The "contract" can be a verbal one.

Whether the individual describes themself as a nanny or a babysitter is not relevant to the question of tax.

It really doesn't matter what you call them because neither nanny nor babysitter are protected titles. What does matter is whether or not they are an employee. If someone is an employee then you have various legal obligations as well as responsibilities towards them.

This is a useful link: www.gov.uk/employment-status/employee but like many things related to employment law assessing employee status is difficult because there is no strict definition. Employment tribunals have been held just to assess a person's employment status and whether they are entitled to any of the benefits being an employee brings. There are various "test" that are applied but one of the main ones is the right of substitution and another is control. Would you be happy if your babysitter didn't turn up one day and sent her sister you didn't know instead? Or if she said that actually, next week she wasn't going to work Monday because she was going away for the weekend but would do extra hours on Thursday to make up for it? If you are not, then you're looking an employee relationship because you want to retain control; therefore she cannot be self employed.

As a general rule, babysitters tend to be casual workers, who do ad hoc hours and don't earn enough to worry about tax and NI. What you are describing sounds much more like an employee employer relationship. You can use a nanny payroll company like Nanny Tax to sort out payslips, tax and NI and also advise you on matters like contracts etc.

Childcare law wise, there is no difference. However there is a definition for when childminding applies (2am to 6pm), thus you could say that babysitting is therefore 6pm to 2am. It falls in the period of time which is unregulated.
However it is also unregulated due to the location at which the care takes place - the child's home, rather than the care providers home.

It should be noted though that it is possible to childmind from a home which is not owned by the childminder. So having care provided at the child's home does not necessarily mean that such care is unregulated.

Tax law is hugely complex. A lot I feel would come down to the employment status of the work being done. If you advertise a job, then it's likely to be employment. If you respond to an advert placed by a business, then it's likely to be self employment, though not always. Lots of factors are considered. If you want to read the Employment Status Manual you can but it won't give you a 100% definitive answer.

As others have said doesn't matter what you call them
If you dictate same hours and days then if you want to do it legally you will be employing them

Yes anyone can call theirself a nanny and it does bug me as I went for college for 2yrs to do the NNEB - that's what the best nanny qual about 20 odd years ago was called

OP

If you can afford to pay someone to have the kids in your house then I would do that. Especially at the ages your children are, they would probably really resent the restrictions that going to a childminder would involve. Plus, many childminders wont take 11 year olds.

Have you considered an Au Pair?

I'd be willing to consider an au pair, but we don't have much space. I'm not sure the money from my job would stretch to buying a house with an extra bedroom. We're in the same boat as so many other families.

I agree some one coming to our house would be better. it just looks complicated to sort out!

It really isn't complicated if you use a good payroll company. They do it all for you and have helplines for anything that comes up that's not expressly mentioned in your contract. They'll provide you with contract templates and a good contract combined with good communication is key to almost everything. It's not cheap (about £250-400pa depending who you use) but for what you actually get it's good value.

Main things to bear in mind with nanny employees are:

Agree a gross salary
Agree what sick pay will be paid and for how long (if any)
Holiday pay and when holidays are to be taken/restrictions
Hours
Overtime
Nanny duties
Know your statutory obligations (mostly common sense here) but things like health and safety, maternity/paternity, redundancy, time off for dependents.

Can I just add...what am I to call myself if not a 'Nanny'...I trained for 3 years to be a childrens nurse, worked as a childrens nurse, but then decided to be a nanny ( the family thought the nurse qualification might come in handy!)...I didn't retrain as I was never asked...I was a registered childminder for 20+ years and then a respite carer...I then went back to being a nanny and have been for about 10 years...I am not an NNEB or taken any NVQs, but I am a nanny....or am I????

Payroll companies start from £100 a year. Its the Employers NI that can add a lot to the cost though varies according to salary.

Toomany - I had a childcare student from my local college do that sort of job for me last year. Fewer hours because I was only WOH 2 days/week but you should (just about) be under the threshold for paying tax/NI (especially if you could cut it to just under 15 hours). I advertised on find a babysitter and got loads of applicants. There were lots of older women who weren't working who also applied so that might suit you better.

Either way, would be worth exploring if you can get someone who falls under that magic £111 threshold.

For your requirements it sound very likely that you would be the employer.

Marylou I am now wondering the same thing!

I have cared for children in their own home for 28 years. Sole-charge. Long hours. I have always classed myself as a nanny, but now it would seem that despite all of my experience, excellent references and rather large wage, I am not a nanny because I don't have a piece of paper from college to show that I changed nappies, fed and dressed dolls (which of course is so life like). I haven't learnt how children behave from books because learning it for real is exactly the same (NOT!)

I know lots of nannies with that bit of paper who I don't class as good nannies. I know a lot of nannies who do not have formal qualifications that are amazing nannies. I also know nannies that do have qualifications that are fantastic and nannies who don't have qualifications that are rubbish.

I shall carry on calling myself a nanny because that's what I am. I don't give a damn what people on a website want to call me.

I love my job and I am bloody good at it.