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Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

URGENT PLEASE - which of you CM's MOVED HOUSE recently????

65 replies

looneytune · 29/09/2006 16:18

I was chatting to one of you recently about the stresses of moving house and you were just about to.

I need you ASAP - Ofsted causing me problems, just like they did you but I can't find the thread to remind me what you did about it!

HELP!!!

May be moving in 2½ weeks

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
looneytune · 29/09/2006 16:32

Sorry, going to have to keep bumping this as I'm desperate!!

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looneytune · 29/09/2006 17:11

bump

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looneytune · 29/09/2006 18:38

desperate bump

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looneytune · 29/09/2006 20:37

bump

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looneytune · 30/09/2006 10:42

not having much luck am I anyone else whos moved house whilst minding? maybe you can help?

PLEASE!

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Thistles · 30/09/2006 10:56

Is it this one?
August thread

looneytune · 30/09/2006 12:13

Thanks very much, someone is talking to me now . Unfortunately, I found those threads in my search but they are not the one I was looking for.

There is a minder here who moved very recently and had same problem as I'm having - Ofsted told them they can't childmind until they've had an inspection. She explained what she did to sort it out but I can't find the thread and can't remember who it was.

Thanks very much anyway

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feckit · 30/09/2006 12:39

not the thread you were after I guess but there's a solution on it from ThePrisoner

looneytune · 30/09/2006 12:52

Many Thanks. Tried all that I need to go through certain Ofsted channels as they're having none of it.

They are sooooo crap it's untrue - NOTHING is EVER simple with them!

Sorry, can you tell I'm stressed

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feckit · 30/09/2006 13:19

Oooh, I bet you she was called gooseegg....

feckit · 30/09/2006 13:20

gotcha!

looneytune · 30/09/2006 13:31

I LOVE U xxxxx

Thanks so much!!!!!!

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feckit · 30/09/2006 13:40
Grin
nannynick · 30/09/2006 19:02

Childminders moving house is an issue that gets raised time and time again - has NCMA (and their counterparts in Scotland and Wales) not come to some agreement with the regulatory authorities yet?

In England, legally I think you can not childmind until you have a Registration Certificate that states the new address. Not sure if the Childcare Act 2006 has made any changes to that.
Section 33 and 35 I think are the sections of most interest. Is there a Lawyer in the house? Does the Childcare Act 2006 register The Provider, The Premises or Both, when it comes to Early Years Childminding?

nannynick · 30/09/2006 19:22

Not sure if this document is still current, but Ofsted do mention about Childminders Moving House
Prompt points for inspections - April 2005 - MS Word Document

It says that a Childminder will get an inspection "Within 6 months of move if not visited at the time", Subject to a risk assessment taking into account previous inspection judgements and the provider complaints history.

Not sure if that helps though.

looneytune · 01/10/2006 08:48

Thanks Nannynick Unfortunately it looks like Ofsted can leave me without work for up to 6 months - if that's the case, we'd loose our house and parents would be stuck without a childminder as I'm not sure there are any more in the area who could help atm.

Ofsted annoy the hell out of me as it's so clear that although they think they have one rule across the board, they so don't!!! I know Gooseegg had the same problem as I'm having but then got help and it was all sorted and she just did her own risk assessment.

If I hadn't have known about people moving with no problems and I'd phoned Ofsted first and they told me this, we wouldn't have been moving as wouldn't be able to afford months of no income.

Sorry, still very annoyed with them!

Thanks for the links though

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nannynick · 01/10/2006 11:39

Care Standards Act 2000
As I do not think we are currently governed by the Childcare Act 2006 at this present moment in time, we will use the Care Standards Act 2000.

Section 79
79 A (6) "Day care" means care provided at any time for children under the age of eight on premises other than domestic premises.

So as a childminder you are NOT providing Daycare.

79 B (3) A person is qualified for registration for child minding if-
(a) he, and every other person looking after children on any premises on which he is or is likely to be child minding, is suitable to look after children under the age of eight;
(b) every person living or employed on the premises in question is suitable to be in regular contact with children under the age of eight;
(c) the premises in question are suitable to be used for looking after children under the age of eight, having regard to their condition and the condition and appropriateness of any equipment on the premises and to any other factor connected with the situation, construction or size of the premises; and
(d) he is complying with regulations under section 79C and with any conditions imposed by the registration authority.

So if the people at the premises has not changed, and you do a risk assessment to confirm that the new premises is suitable for childminding, then you comply with a,b and c above.

79C. - (1) The Secretary of State may, after consulting the Chief Inspector and any other person he considers appropriate, make regulations governing the activities of registered persons who act as child minders, or provide day care, on premises in England.

This I believe means that you need to follow what it says in the National Standards for Childminding.

(7) Regulations may provide-
(a) that a registered person who without reasonable excuse contravenes, or otherwise fails to comply with, any requirement of the regulations shall be guilty of an offence; and
(b) that a person guilty of the offence shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

So if you ignore their rules, you commit an offence which may incur a level 5 fine which I think is £5000.

79H (2) Any regulations made under this section shall include provision conferring on the person concerned a right of appeal to the Tribunal against suspension.

If Ofsted do take action against you, it can go to a Tribunal. WE NEED CASES TO GO TO TRIBUNAL - so we create CASE LAW, which can then be referred to on subsequent occasions of the same events occuring. If as a Registered Childminder, all you have done is move premises, and you have carried out a risk assessment and YOU FEEL it is safe, and you have Notified Ofsted of the changes of premises, then is a Judge really going to say you are an unfit childminder? Or is a Judge more likely to use commensense and say that it is up to the regulator to inspect the premises at their earliest opportunity.

National Standards
14.3 The early years child care inspector is informed of the following at the
earliest opportunity: any significant changes to the premises;*

Glossary
Registered person: a person deemed qualified to care for children and whose name appears on the certificate of registration. The registered person
has overall responsibility for ensuring that the requirements of the national standards are met. A company, committee or other group may be the registered person.

I CANNOT FIND WHERE IT STATES THAT FOR A CHILDMINDER THE CERTIFICATE HAS TO DISPLAY THE PREMISES ADDRESS.

SI 2001 No.1830: Information to be included on Certificates

  1. Certificates of registration for providing child minding or for providing day care shall give the following information about the following matters -
(a) the name of the registered person; (b) in the case of day care, the address at which the day care is to be provided; (c) any conditions applicable to the registration.

Ok then... it's in Black and White - as a Childminder, your certificate DOES NOT have to display the ADDRESS as you are not providing Day Care - see above, Care Standards Act 2000 79a (6) for definition of what Day Care is.

My belief is that Ofsted don't realise that, and thus why they feel they have to put the address on the certificate. I may have missed something, but I can't find where it says in Law that the address of a Childminder needs to appear on the Certificate.

You MUST notifiy Ofsted that your premises is changing. You must do so at the earliest opportunity.
I believe that Ofsted say that you can't recommence childminding without a new certificate, but I can't find in Law where it says that! I think Ofsted are banding Childminding and Daycare under one umbrella... whereas the Care Standards Act and SI 2001 No.1830 notes differences. Thus I feel it's worth challenging.

So for those of you who are NCMA members, please put pressure on NCMA to challenge Ofsted's policy in a Court of Law, so that there is Case Law to refer to in the future.

While I agree that Ofsted need to be notified of a change in premises, and I feel Ofsted should be able to inspect such premises at their earliest opportunity, I can not find where it states in law that you can not continue childminding from that new premises.

If you more house and continue to childmind, what law are you breaking?

nannynick · 01/10/2006 11:40

Is there a Lawyer in the house? Please look at post below, and the associated legislation... what is your view? Please... we need a legal opinion.

I am not a lawyer, I am a childcare provider, but to me what I wrote makes sense.

LoveMyGirls · 01/10/2006 12:06

wow nannynick you really have gone to a lot of effort i agree with you having read through your post i think unless ofsted give a very good reason (and i cant think of any) then it must be ok, even if LT does continue to childmind at the new address what is the worst that can happen, a fine at most i should think? and tbh she could challenge that. in the first instance i think LT is right to call the early years team and ask for help and also ring NCMA and get their backing. it is ridiculous that they say you cant continue minding, you would lose your mindee's, your home etc thats insane!

fingers crossed you get this sorted asap LT x

nannynick · 01/10/2006 12:25

Oh I love the Childcare Act 2006

Explanatory Notes to Childcare Act - September 2006

  1. Section 37 places an obligation on the Chief Inspector to place successful applicants in the early years register and to issue them with certificates of registration. This section makes a distinction between early years childminders and early years providers who are not childminders. This is because, when a childminder is registered, the registration is not linked to any particular premises. In the case of other early years providers, however, the registration is in respect of particular premises. This means that early years providers (other than childminders) may have separate entries in the register in respect of different premises (where they provide childcare at more than one location).

Oh don't you just love it:
when a childminder is registered, the registration is not linked to any particular premises.

Childcare Act 2006

If only I could find when this legislation commences. I suspect it may not be until April 2007.

looneytune · 01/10/2006 12:31

Wow nannynick, you are a true star. I've got lots of reading to do now haven't I!

I've always said you're the king of links!!! You were so helpful when dh lost his job at Christmas - thanks again for all your help and the time you've put in to finding all this!!

Off to have a read now!

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looneytune · 02/10/2006 10:09

Update: Early Years rep is contacting the manager at our local OFSTED office to see what she says. She said at the end of the day, OFSTED are higher up so what they say go . Not holding my breath but will see what she comes back with.

One funny thing she did say is that I shouldn't panic as there are ways round this. I.e. working for no pay. I laughed and said that suddenly not being paid makes my house safe for kids However, I know what she was getting at - not needing to be registered Ridiculous isn't it!!

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looneytune · 02/10/2006 16:57

Update:

Early Years rep has phoned me back and this is what Ofsted said with happen IF all runs smoothly:

  1. Contact them by phone informing them of proposed move - done

  2. Confirm in writing, advise them of the new address and give a rough idea of when I will be moving and write up a risk assessment

  3. They will judge me on the letter they receive

  4. Phone up ASAP when obtained actual move date

  5. IF they are happy with the contents of my letter then they will issue a certificate 2-3 days before move date if they are able to.

She said my letter will be read and passed on to local inspector and it's down to them whether or not they are happy to go on just the risk assessment. She said one inspector could be fine whereas another may decide they insist on viewing the premises.

That's all she could do for me and she advised I stick with that to make things as smooth as possible. She said if I need an inspection then yes, it could take up to 6 months as they are very busy

The only way round this would be to childmind for free until they've inspected me. I can't afford to do that with a new bloomin mortgage!!!

I think I will post my draft letter on here when it's done to get some advice as I so need this to be right!

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nannynick · 02/10/2006 18:35

That at least sounds a little more reaonable, though I still don't feel it's Legal.

Ofsted certainly didn't say what you posted to another childminder who called them earlier today. So clearly their Helpline staff don't know the correct policy - if what you have posted is their 'official' policy.

Complaints regarding POLICY really need to be made, to get Ofsted to think about what their policy is, and to make that policy public. If childminders knew the policy prior to their decision to buy a new home, I feel there would be far lass of an issue. At present, as it their policy is not published, and some of their staff don't even know what the policy is, it is little wonder that it is creating such an issue for any childminder who is moving or considering moving home.

I have written to NCMA and Ofsted today regarding this matter... I await their response.

HenniPenni · 02/10/2006 18:45

looney, please speak directly to the inspection team , not the helpline staff. I had an issue that I needed sorting, I spoke to the helpline satff on three seperate occasions and got told 3 different things - it was eventually resolved when I managed to speak to an inspector who openly admitted that the helpline staff do not know their facts.

Forgive me because I have not read all your thread and so do not know all the facts, but, a c/m friend of mine is also in the process of moving and has been told that they do not need an inspection of their new house. Although it is possibly because they have just had an inspection. HTH