Would you send your child to an unregistered "childminder"?

[DoubtfireDear]

I live in a small village, DS attends the village primary school, he is nearly 5. There is no afterschool club or childcare in the village, the nearest registered childminders and daycare are 20 miles away in either direction and none do pick up.

I am about to start college 20 miles away, I wont be home until two hours after DS is out of school, twice a week.

There is a lady in our village who used to be a registered childminder but is no longer registered. She watches many of the children who go to the village school and does pick up/drop offs. She seems to be very good with
them all, lots of activities, takes them out for the day gives healthy meals and snacks and is firm but good fun from what i've seen of her with the other children and she has a playroom set up in her home for them.

I just dont think I'm comfortable with the fact that she isn't registered so her home/play room have not been checked out, I don't know if she has a limit on how many children she'll watch at a given time etc.

Just wondered what the MN view on this was, at the minute I'm still on the "no way" side of the fence but my family are not being very helpful at the minute and i'd like to be able to stop relying on them if possble.

It probably seems more risky to people who are younger than me (I'm in my 40's), who have grown up in a more 'regulated' environment. People doing what this lady is doing was 'the norm' when I grew up and it was lovely and relaxed - not mountains of Ofsted paperwork and assessing a child every time they as much as look at a toy or risk assessing every time someone wants to do something perfectly ordinary.

Ofsted have sold it as 'better' - I'm not convinced myself.

However, I think everyone should be able to choose what suits them, what they feel comfortable with. I just think that Ofsted should not have taken the choice away from people.

Doubtfire I hope DS settles into school and loves it there and you are able to find a solution that isn't too stressful :)

Maybe it could be an age thing Latte, I don't mean that to sound cheeky.

I am 25, If DS has been looked after outwith family it has been by a daycare nursery, so all fully checked out and governed etc.

My sister is helping me out for the first week, and my parents or sister can take him to school, but sis is starting a different college soon and both my parents work full time so can't do after school care regularly. I think I'd be comfortable having a bit of a shared childcare/playdate arrangement but I don't know the other mums overly well- I suppose I'll need to change that!

It's not cheeky - I said it first I am 20 years older than you, so I grew up in a very different environment (and frankly, I am so glad I did, the 70's /80's were a brilliant time to be a kid!).

I think a lot of people of your age/generation have grown up at a time where the internet/media has made life seem much more scary and dangerous than it actually is. Then the govt is trying to regulate everything (revenue generating IMO) and none of it is actually making the world any safer - just more intimidating.

This is a prime example really -

• You live in a small village
• There is a lady who watches many of the children
• She seems to be good with the children
• Lots of activities
• Takes them out
• Healthy snacks
• Firm but fun
• Playroom in her home

Yet you are so conditioned that unless Ofsted has ticked lots of boxes, she can't be trusted to look after your DS for 4 hours a week, afterschool.

It (IMO) is MADNESS - but it's not YOU I blame for that, it's the way society has made people of your age/generation feel and I think it's really sad.

Yes, I think getting to know some of the other Mums might be a good solution for you. Even if you can't find someone who wants after school care, they might be able to help more in term time, you might be able to help them during the holidays.

The 90s werent half bad either

Interestingly though, my mum is even more against it than I am, she is in her 50s!

When you break it down as you have, it makes no sense for me not to use her really, all the positives are there, and I see her every day, the children she is with are always happy and well disciplined/under control when she is out and about.

It makes no sense really that i'd hand him over to one of his frienda mums who obviously wont have had their home inspected, or indeed that I'd offer to look after one of his friends when my own home hasn't been approved by anyone other than me!

I'm hoping that I'd be able to reciprocate for someone in the other 5 days of the week I'm free, I'd even do weekends if need be, hopefully I'll be able to scope someone out.

all the positives are there, and I see her every day, the children she is with are always happy and well disciplined/under control when she is out and about

See, that would count for a lot with me.
I'd also be persuaded, now I've realised that it's only 2 hours, twice a week.
To be fair, my 15 yr old 'babysits' (childminds?) 2 dc each week for a 'job', and she's...er...15.

Once they start school, and you're at work, there's going to be plenty of times for you to swap favours with other parents, I wouldn't want to start off doing that for a regular childcare gig. This lady is now sounding a good option

I've talked myself round a bit, and I think I'm back on the fence again.

The fact that I can make that statement about her (the one you just quoted, Backfor) speaks volumes really. I don't think I have any qualms about her competence and I speak to her at most school drop offs and pick ups, or at the park if she is there with other children and I like her as a person, though I don't know her very well. Her daughter and grandchildren
who live with her are lovely people, they are a very nice family.

My concerns lie, I think, with the lack of regulation on how many children she would have at one time (even if DS is only there for a couple of hours) I do think that there are limits put on this for a reason, especially since it is very much under 6s she is in charge of. I'd be worried that things might get out of hand if she took on too much, but there's nothing to stop her from doing so. I don't want to let him go, and have a routine that he becomes happy with and that I become dependant on, then be unhappy if I realise that she doesn't have enough attention to divide between too many children with regards to safety more than anything.

I also would worry that the house maybe wouldn't be safe enough, it's one thing having a family home running as normal with two or three children running around, but with seven or eight plus two grandchildren to keep tabs on, and nothing to adhere to wrt child proofing, especially as they live right on a very busy main road etc. I'd be apprehensive about how much she can keep tabs on and how easy it would be for someting to go wrong. Don't get me wrong, I do believe she is very much in control from what I have seen, and I'm generally quite easy going when it comes to safety and DS (I'm not a helicopter) I just can't imagine one person coping with it all and there's nothing in place to reassure me that things will remain under control.

Maybe I'm really overthinking it, DS has been in a&e because of accident both at his grandparents house and at his nursery so it can happen anywhere I suppose.

The last thing I would want to do, would be to convince you to use someone you are not happy with, this is your decision and yours alone.

However, I was going to say that about 'using' other school Mums. You have no idea what their houses are like, their partners, other children, rules, security etc I'm not saying you shouldn't trust any of them - I'm just saying that just because they have a child in your child's class it doesn't necessarily make them a better/safer option than LGM (Lovely Granny Minder).

Do you not think if LGM couldn't cope it would have been a problem before now? She's not going to suddenly stop being able to cope because your son starts going (unless he's a handful and I'm sure she would say to you 'this isn't working for me' if he wont work alongside all the other children she has). Do you think the other parents in your village have much lower standards for the care of their children than you do? (that's a serious not sarky question, some people would leave their kids with literally anyone offering).

Ofsted's rules around numbers are ridiculous. Parents & nannies cope with x under y age plus older ones etc, but if you are a CM you are deemed unable to do so. She obviously has her house set up to do this.

How often (and you live in a small village so you would have heard the rumours) have you heard anything negative about her or her care of the children?

I just can't imagine one person coping with it all Lots of people can't imagine coping with lots of different stuff, but it doesn't mean others can't do it :)

I don't want to let him go, and have a routine that he becomes happy with and that I become dependant on, then be unhappy if I realise that she doesn't have enough attention to divide between too many children with regards to safety more than anything

You have hit the years of 'wrap around care', no matter what you do, it is highly unlikely to last the whole time DS is at school. All you can do is what is best at that time. From my own experience you are better with someone who has a few children at her house, where the space/toys etc are for them all to share. When your child goes to another child's home, that child can be quite territorial about their house/toys/parent - it's not a playdate, it's something being foisted on them whether they want it or not and it doesn't always translate to a nice time for either child - so you might find something that works 'hours/days' wise for the adults, but emotionally not for one or both of the children. The you will either have to change it, or tell one of the kids to 'just get on with it'. It's not to say it would be the worst thing in the world if it was your only option - just that it might not be the 'lovely solution' you think it might be. Then again it might be - but my point is, you don't know and there's no guarantee it will work out any better long term than with LGM.

It is never easy to leave your child with someone new :)

OH - and as for your Mum. Childminders are a bit like boyfriends, no one is ever good enough

Just to add to the confusion: I know a few registered childminders that are deemed to be ok by Ofsted and that I wouldn't leave my children with. Ofsted's stamp of approval is not an indicator of great childcare, IMHO.

I think I would worry that LGM is apparently the sort of person who would break the law. It may be a daft law, but it would make me wonder what else she might do. I'd also worry about sorting out childcare at short notice (and the effect on DS) if he got settled and then she got closed down. For those reasons, I would not use her.

LatteLoves, not at all, to be honest, I am happy with her as a person who I am sure my son would enjoy being around and who is kind and firm and in control, as well as he will know the other children from school, I posted here to get an opinion on how important the fact that she isn't registered is.

DS has only ever been in a nursery setting, lovely nursery with great staff and good facilities, he started there when he was just 18 months! I have never used a childminder
or indeed a babysitter outwith family before so I don't have any idea of how these things work and how important the limitations are if they are not put in place.

I'll be honest here, I do feel that at least a couple of the mums have lower standards when it comes to safety and care, but for one of them this is based soley on the fact she doesn't use a car seat for her youngest (5) or even belt him in. The other is a close friend of mine and is so lax when it comes to the well-being of her children I wouldn't trust her judgement at all, she smokes in her house and car, doesnt belt her children into their seats, lets them drink whole cans of coke etc. I know her well, I know she used the LGM over the summer simply to get her kids out of the way. None of that is any of my business, and I'm not trying to be catty or criticise them but they are the two mums I know best/know most about and I wouldn't make a judgement call based on their opinion.

I have never heard one bad thing about her, and this is a place where people just make things up if they cant find any dirt on a person but I havent heard a whisper against her.

If I go by what I have seen with my own eyes, she has a small group of very happy and well disciplined children with her who she does lots of activities with and encourages good behaviour and politeness without being very hard on them. As a person, from what I can gather she is very forward and very open so I don't think she'd be backward if she had to tell me it wasn't working or whatever.

My DS can be a bit of a handful which is why I think I am concerned about safety if her numbers are high, but at the same time he is normally very well behaved and helpful for other people, it's just me he plays up with!

You make a good point about sharing childcare with another mum, it might suit the adults but it's alot to ask of a child to be
forced to play woth someone week after week and share everythig when they may not alwayd be getting along or may just not feel like it, I guess at a childminder they can find a quiet corner to read a book or draw if they dont feel like joining in but that doesnt work when there are only two of them. Ultimately I want DS to be happy and safe, he isn't used to having to share me or his home with anyone so it might be best not to go down that route.

There's a childminder in a neighbouring town, Pippidoes and she is registered with bells on, even if she wasn't miles away I still wouldn't send my son to her, so I suppose it does work the other way too. Someone can be registered and be totally crap, or be not registered like LGM and be lovely.

Jinxxx I have thought about that, I think it started off as one child because someone she knew was stuck, but because there are limited options here it snowballed. I know she
is still breaking the law, but I don't think she is a bad person generally.

We've not helped much, have we?
Just put you right back on that fence!

It's illegal to be an unregistered childminder....

Report her to ofsted and no do not use her.

It is illegal to be an unregistered childminder if children are under 8 and you are accepting payment. Not saying I agree with this but it's a fact. So really responsible childminders would be registered. Although registration with Ofsted is absolutely no guarantee that they will be any good IMHO.

Yip, still on fhe fence Backfor

You have given me more things to consider though and a bit of perspective wrt rules/ticking boxes vs. competence as a person.

Crowen85 I have no intention of reporting this lady, whether or not she is registered, I am confident that she is good at her job and the children in her care are well looked after. It's up to the parents if they are happy to use her in those circumstances, I'm not willing to wade in and have her shut down. My dilemma is accepting that and using her, knowing I have no guarantee of how things are run, or accepting that I wont be happy to use her without the safety net of regulations etc and have to find another solution.

I have no intention of scuppering other parents' choices or shutting her down.

That's fair enough, however I am a nanny and I know that it's illegal and you won't be so high and mighty when a child gets hurt!

High and mighty? ok.

I'm not questioming the legality of what she's doing, I'm trying to guage an opinion from other people who have a bit more experience than me im a childminder type setting and how much of a difference the regulations really make. If I believe my child wont be safe with her, I wont use her but it's not for me to decide or take blame if other parents are willing to risk it.

I don't think I can offer you the perspective you are after...I am an outstanding graded childminder which I worked very hard to achieve and maintain. I love my job, I have been in childcare for 8yrs, and despite the annoyance Ofsted regulary brings me, if you find a CM that has been consistently graded good or above, then yes they are worth it.

For me, childcare is so much more than just being lovely, and doing nice things. It's about knowing about behaviours/disciplines/development. Would this lady know what to do if a child was suddenly taken ill? If she isn't registered, who is to say she took a first aid course recently?

You absolutely have to be 100% certain with whoever you leave your child with. This is such a personal decision, and everyone has different feelings on it. What I would say, if anything were to happen, responsibility falls to you. If she does happen to have 10 under 8s and 2 get into a fight and end up with trips to A&E what would happen to her other kids? The fact that she could have any number of children petrifies me. That's very wrong. Actually despite what others may think, I believe the Ofsted rules on ratios are very clear.

I wouldn't do it. But that may be because I'm qualified, and I am proud of that, and consequent achievements.

Thankyou ACM, and congratulations on doing so well in your career

I wont find a registered childminder that I can use, with any grading- there just aren't amy here!

You could be right about the behaviours/first aid bit- I have no idea how long ago she actually was registered, so her experience and knowledge might be ok but quite out of date. She would be able to apply good common sense but with several little ones running about and an unwell or injured child who needs medical attention sounds far from ideal- if a child had to go to hospital, she would have to leave her other children with goodness knows who to accompany the unwell child, or abandon the unwell child to go to hospital alone in an ambulance (she doesn't drive and would not be able to take the child herself.

Thankyou for your reply, that is exactly the sort of perspective I was looking for, sensible advice about the practicalities that I wouldn't have thought of myself.

Your welcome!!

A&E scenario is an extreme case, and fingers crossed it never happens, but it's worth thinking about, especially if she doesn't follow Ofsted ratios, that's a lot of children to organise!!

Having years of experience is invaluable, but especially when it comes to first aid, which changes so frequently, it pays to have up to date information, which being in a registered setting, nursery/crèche/CM guarantees.

Good luck in your decision, ask lots of questions, it sounds like your childcare options are very limited, but have a look around, and don't just settle.

I have been an ofsted registered childminder and am now not as I couldn't be doing with the paperwork. I am DBS checked and from 1st September 2014 can look after a child for 3 hours a day, and be paid, legally. If you are not comfortable then don't do it, what else will you do though?

superram do you have to have first aid? How many children can you have...is it an unlimited amount?

I do think in rural areas unregistered childminders are much more common. I am from Northern Ireland and everyone I know who uses a childminder uses someone who is unregistered. My family though I was a bit strange that I insisted on a registered childminder for DS when I first moved back here. Then when I told them how expensive the registered childminder was, they thought I was downright crazy.
There really aren't that many registered childminders or nurseries in the area where I am from. I'm unsure whether that is because there is not the demand for them because people are happy using unregistered care or whether people use unregistered care because there is not enough registered.

I suppose when you think about it, many families are happy to use Au Pairs, teenage babysitters, and untrained nannies. So if you were to find an ex-childminder looking after children for three hrs a day, it's not a bad option...all of the time. You do hear of some awful stories about unregistered childminders!!

Superram - the 3 hours was talked about as a possible change but in fact it has remained at 2 hours. Perhaps you should become properly registered again so that you can keep properly up to date.
An unregistered childcare provider will have had no checks on them and will have no rules re child numbers, first aid, things they do etc. I wouldn't want that for my children.