which is better nursery or child minder for just two year old

[zippitippitoes]

and why?

I think the choice of childcare is such a personal choice and depends on what suits your child and your family. We went for nursery after "inspecting" various childminders and nurseries. It isn't necessarily a choice between childminder or nursery, but you have to find that special childminder or that particular nursery which is right for YOU and your 2 year-old.

I personally feel that a good nursery with professional carers can add something extra to my children's development whereas a childminder is just handing my child over to another mum and another family environment. However, for many people this is exactly what they want, so one person's negative can be another person's positive. I would also check number of children a childminder is looking after. CM is often thought of as more 1-2-1 care, but if they have many children who vary in age and their needs are very different, your child might get more individual care in a nursery.

I think the main benefit I see with CM is that your child can continue in their care once they start school.

Fairymum - I find your comment 'with a childminder you are just handing them over to another mum' a bit offensive.

Yes I am a mum, because I am a mum I bring with me lots of experience and knowledge, but I have also done extensive training on child behaviour and management, child protection, creativity, fire safety, first aid, inclusion, food hygiene, oral health, risk assesment, health and safety, workshops on music and movement, learning through play and lots more.I have also done courses on the birth to 3 matters and cirriculum guidence which we follow. I am also doing the 1 year long NCMA quality first qualification.

One of my mindees goes to a nursery as well as coming to me (she is 3.5) and when I pick up from there I have noticed that most of the girls working there are very young and only the assistant supervisor has children of her own. Also most of the courses I go on are also attended by staff from nurseries/playgroups.

I am not saying that childminders are better than nurseries but you are not 'just handing your child over to another mum' you are handing them over to 'a mum who knows how hard it is to leave your child whilst you go to work and who aims to care for them as you would yourself and who has done lots of training to make sure they are given a great start in life by helping them to learn and become confident happy children'.

Hmmmmm. By the same token, FeelingOld I also find myself getting P'd off with a lot of the ill-informed 'nursery bashing' that goes on here. We all know that there are good and bad practitioners within childminding and nurseries and I could give you some horror stories from both, but I don't. Live and let live, eh?!

FeelingOld, I was talking about my own feelings about childminders. Yes, I know some childminders have good qualifications, some are ex-nursery teachers etc. I have across many of them on MN, not in RL though. I am sure there are more childminders who have no qualifications than those who do. This is important to me and that's why I have chosen nurseries were the majority of the staff have formal qualifications and long experience. No, I would not be happy about just a few 19-year olds in a room looking after my children and there are some bad nurseries out there. You only need to read a few threads on MN to realise.

I am sure there are lots of good childminders around. I have many friends who use childminders, but from what I see of them those minders do not provide what I am looking for when it comes to childcare. One minder looking after too many children are the most off-putting aspect for me. Again, parents are looking for different things for their children and I am sure it will always be a market for both childminders and nurseries. I think the main problem with nurseries (I don't know if the same with CMs) is that the really good ones seem far and few between and cost so much money only a few priviledged children go there and the less fortunte often have to settle for second best.

It's also importnant to remember that OFSTED require all people looking after children to undertake training in key areas. This applies to both nurseries and childminders.

I have worked in nurseries - some of them with very good reputations in the area and there was only one which I now (looking back) could say I would even be remotely comfortable with sending my own child to.
I started working in nurseries at 18 years old and there were nursery nurses there straight from college (and sorry to say this - not the brightest) who got promoted very quickly. None of them had had children.

Now, as a childminder, and mother of two, I can honestly say that I look back and wonder how those girls (and myself included) could care for those children in the same way that an experienced childminder (and mother - being a positive point) could.

I know many registered childminders, all lovely people and mostly mothers, who genuinely care about the children they are looking after and form bonds with them.

What's the problem with handing your child over to 'another mother'??? Is that second rate then?

Because if for someone reason I was unable to look after my child, another mother and a home environment, where my child could relax and exeperience everything I would provide for them at home, would be exactly what I would be looking for.

Sigh.....Yes but HappyMumof2 it is not what I am looking for.

HMO2. A nursery is often as good as the staff it employs. We have three graduates and a qualified primary school teacher working at ours and our recent OFSTED inspection report commented on our 'fantastic team' I also fail to see how being a parent necessarily makes you a good Childcare Practitioner. Yes, there will be some empathy but as I'm sure you are aware early years care and education is not the same as parenting. A similar argument to suggesting that a good palliative care nurse needs to have experienced a terminal disease/illness, no?

I understand that, but what makes you think nursery staff are any more professional than childminders?

that was to FM btw

Please show me where I have suggested any such thing, HMO2.

For us, we prefered a nursery for our DD. I didn't have any personal recommendation for a childminder and also knew I would personally feel happier with a setting where there was more than one adult around, and more back up in caseof staff absense/holiday, etc. DD has loved being at nursery and we have not looked back. For us it was the best decision we made.

errm.... I was talking to FM (as I just said)

OK. Seen.

I think Bubble99 said it well:

"early years care and education is not the same as parenting." I like the more formal and structured environment a nursery can provide. I think the teachers can do more activities which are age appropriate to my children whereas a childminder typically have children of different ages. Again, that might be seen as a strenght by other parents.

I also went to a nursery from I was a baby myself. I spent 6 happy years in a nursery setting which has of course influenced my decision to send my own children to a nursery.

I really just talking about the reasons behind my own choice. I am not coming out with any Steve Biddulph-type comments that a childminder can ruin your child for life, am I?

I have friends who have all chosen differently when it comes to childcare. Nurseries, CMs, grand parents, one have a nanny and 2 of my friends have young au pairs. Luckily we are all happy with our childcare and when we come together you really coulnd't tell which child is looked after in a nursery, by a nanny, a grand parent......So it really comes down to individual choice and I have give my reason for my choice.

Wow has this kicked off yet :o

I was a nursery nurse(senior and deputy manager) and know after having ds have decided to become a cm. Personally i think like some others have said you can find good and bad in both nurseries and cm's.

I personally wouldnt send my ds to a nursery because i dont like the fact that he would be in group care. Though being in cm care is also group care i feel that the fact that it is smaller groups that it would suit my ds better even if i was to go back to work in nurseries i would place my ds with a cm.

I really do think that each family has to do what fits and is best for them . there are pros and cons on both sides and it just depends on the type of child/family you are that tips the balance.

To each their own.

interesting replies..

obviously it's not my decision to make but i think dd will want me to input, is it better to have same age mindees or staggered if there are say three and different ones on different days?

what is the most important thing to look for?

if they have an ofsted report would you expect them to let you see it? and if they do is satisfactory really good enough or not?

is there anything that really isn't that important..like if their house is a bit rundown but they seem nice and it's all tidy enough

is it rude to want to see the toilets and kitchen?

You should absolutely be able to see their OFSTED report - in fact I'd expect a decent childminder to offer it without being asked. You can get some on the web in Katymac's link, as long as you know their OFSTED number.

It's also not rude at all to want to see 'facilities' - again, a decent cm will give you a full tour of kitchen, toilets, garden, play areas etc.

Although, re: OFSTED...my childminder 'only' has a satisfactory report yet I am very happy with her. It's a personal decision in the end, a gut feeling, and also about how your child takes to the individual cm (although I would obviously avoid those with a below-satisfactory report!) and (for me, at least, also things like how flexible she could be at short notice, how reliable she was with pick-ups and drop-offs etc, things that OFSTED don't necessarily take into account.

I read some of them on there but can't match them up as yet!

Now these learning goals on the face of it that wouldn't concern me much unless it means that he is just being given the same toys over and over. Do minders spend most of their time with the children or are they doing house work chores and fitting the children in?

Wow, this thread did kick off didn't it!

I'm a childminder and just wanted to answer zippitiptoes last questions..........

I show my Ofsted report whilst going through my portfolio. If for any reason I forgot, I'd expect to be asked to show it and would never feel funny about being asked (I have nothing to hide!)

I always ask my parents if they want a tour, again nothing to hide. It actually surprises me that most don't even want to look round!

All my time is with the children unless I am preparing food (and when I'm doing this, they are in freeplay and I watch through my kitchen hatch). I don't do housework until the last mindee has left at 6.30pm - if however there has been a spilage or something then I would clear that up iyswim!

You should also make sure that Childminders Certificate and Public Liability Insurance Certificate is on display - mine is in my hallway and I unhook them to show parents when they visit.

I'd ask to see how the children are transported and look at carseats if you are concerned.

If you want a list of questions to ask childminders to give them a good grilling, Katymac has a great list somewhere (I'm sure it's Katymac anyway)

HTH :)

What's best for children is parents/grandparents like you who do their homework so they can make an informed choice from their individual selection of local childcare.
Ask lots of questions and try to look at each setting as Ofsted do. ie "What is it like to be a child here?"

They are Alibubbles Questions

How long have you been working with children?

What training have you had? Any qualifications? Are you part of a network, achieved a quality assurance qualification, look at registration certificate, insurance details, business use for car. First aid must be no more than 3 years old, food hygiene certificate, Certificate in Childminding practice or NVQ 3, Contracts and record forms

Do you enjoy being with children and why?

Can I look around, see the rooms and outside play space? If there is no outside play space - how will you make sure my child gets the chance to play outside?

Where will my child rest?

What kind of food and drink will you give? Can I see a menu?

What will my child do all day?

How do you encourage good behaviour?

Will my child be with a regular group of children? How old are they? How will their timetable fit in with my child?

How will you make sure I know how my child is getting on?

What hours is she open?

How much does she charge?

What about when my child is sick, holidays, days off

What do you do in an emergency?

When was her last Ofsted, can you see the report?

Top 10 Quality Pointers

When you visit possible childcare options, look for these Quality Pointers:

Are the children calm, safe, happy and busy?

Do children play and talk together?

Is the childminder listening to the children and answering them carefully?

Is the childminder friendly and proud of her work?

Is she joining in joining in with what the children are doing?

Are there lots of fun activities planned to help children learn and play? Can children plan some of these activities themselves?

Are there plenty of clean toys and equipment for children to use?

Is the premises clean, well kept and safe for children with a fun outside play area (or will the child go to parks and other places regularly)?

Do parents have plenty of chances to say what they want for their children?

If there are other things you want to know, don't be afraid to ask. Good childminders expect you to ask questions and will be happy to answer them.

Always take up references. You could ask for names of other parents to talk to about the service

Listen to your child and find out more if he/she is unhappy
Always trust your own feelings about your childcare - you know your child best

WHen I said 'I don't suppose many parents feel totally happy with childcare' what I meant was that leaving your child with any carer is one of the hardest things you do. It's not easy to work when you are worried about your choice of childcare nor is it easy when you read yet again the damage you are doing your child. How you feel though doesn't necessairly mirror the reality.

My DD starts at nursery tomorrow. I am reasonably happy with it ( I know someone working there and she has always told me how good this nursery is, it has very good OFSTED report and I was impressed with what I saw and heard) but still I have a heavy heart. Why we work and endure these feelings is the subject for another thread and one which has been done often here on MN.